tanktop74 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Has anyone used the Hanna Checker Alkalinity Colorimeter? If so how do you like it? How accurate do you feel it is? What other test kits are you all using to test alk? I am currently using ELOS but I hate the drops thing... and the color changes so slightly I often miss it and don't trust my results. Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReefSafari Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Well, I just heard/saw that "Mr. Saltwatertank" approves it, and recomends it....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Just ordered the alk and phos ones. I like the alk that you count the drops, api is fine I have Tunse kits also but they are spendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold B Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I've been using the Alk checker since it came out. Since the liquid reagents were added its a verry accurate way to test Alk IMO. I've posted a few things about it on here somewhere. Thanks Harold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassi Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 They were not accurate when they first came out. Actually they were way off scale. Now with the liquid reagent they seems to be more accurate, but I never tried one. They need to be used in a certain way or they will read off scale. This introduces a similar human error factor that you have with a test kit. For sure you don't have to read a color in a weird light condition and this helps. I use the Hanna po4 and I like it but for an important parameter like alkalinity, I like the old school tritration La Motte ALK test. I can test faster than a cheap colorimeter and be more accurate. They also sell refills so it is not as expensive as it seems when you first buy the kit. Another option is the Hach, the one without the digital tritrator is not really expensive. I found out that the Elos was accurate as well, but you can't go down to small increments. I think the La Motte goes down to 4 ppm. As for the colorimeters, keep in mind that you have to replace the cuvettes quite often, even if you manage them with care, and they are kinda expensive (about $20 for 4 if I remember well). Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold B Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Actually, I don't know what you are refering to when you say "has to be used in a certain way" its not any different than say "put 3 drops in" . You simply fill a syringe with 1ml of reagent, fill the cuvette to the line, push a button 2 seconds later you squirt the reagent in (no mixing for a certain period of time ect) , push the button and it counts down from 2min and there you go. I don't consider that much room for error, but we are talking about Humans so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanktop74 Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 They were not accurate when they first came out. Actually they were way off scale. Now with the liquid reagent they seems to be more accurate, but I never tried one. They need to be used in a certain way or they will read off scale. This introduces a similar human error factor that you have with a test kit. For sure you don't have to read a color in a weird light condition and this helps. I use the Hanna po4 and I like it but for an important parameter like alkalinity, I like the old school tritration La Motte ALK test. I can test faster than a cheap colorimeter and be more accurate. They also sell refills so it is not as expensive as it seems when you first buy the kit. Another option is the Hach, the one without the digital tritrator is not really expensive. I found out that the Elos was accurate as well, but you can't go down to small increments. I think the La Motte goes down to 4 ppm. As for the colorimeters, keep in mind that you have to replace the cuvettes quite often, even if you manage them with care, and they are kinda expensive (about $20 for 4 if I remember well). Hope this helps alex where do you get your la Motte test kits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold B Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 The first round of powder reagents were 1 dkh off (lower). No different than the 1 dkh off (higher) that the salifert tests are and they weren't fixed. Hanna did an excellant job of handling the reagent problem and has since remedied it sucessfully. These colorimeters are within .2dkh on average with Lamotte and next to end point titration its the next best thing IMO. You are welcome to check mine out any time Tanktop74 I should've let you check it out when you were over for the group buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 The best alk testing is doing your own acid titration down to a ph of 4.2, super accurate and super cheap because you have to buy the acid by the gallon so you will have enough for years of use . Initial investment is a ph meter and the gallon of acid...good for years of testing! here is a clip from rc chemistry guys You can buy 0.1 N Sulfuric acid standard used as the titrant from: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4YNA6?cm_mmc=Google%20Base-_-Test%20Instruments-_-Laboratory%20Supplies-_-4YNA6[/url] also sells 0.1 N sulfuric acid standards. It may be best to calibrate your pH meter using a 4 & 7 standard before you start the test. Easy part; Testing Now take a sample of your aquarium water, you can use any volume but I like to use 100ml because my pH meter sits nicely in the cup without me holding it at this level. Stick in your pH meter to your sample. You should get the same reading you do when you stick it directly in your tank. If not start over with a clean sample container. Now draw up some 0.1 N HCl solution in to your 5ml syringe. And start dropping into your sample 0.5 mls at a time and watch your pH meter. You are adding a strong acid so your pH should fall rapidly. Once your pH hits 5 start to slow down and add a drop at a time until your pH hits 4.2 . The reason we are shooting for 4.2 is because this is the point where all available carbonates have been converted to carbonic acid. You would think this would be pH 7 but it's not as carbonic acid is a weak acid and you have to really saturate it etc. Anyway, once you have reached pH 4.2 you are done and now can calculate your total alkalinity. Alk mg of CaC03 /L = A x N x 50,000 / mL of sample Where A = ml of acid added N = normality of your HCL So if you added 4ml of 0.1 HCL before you hit a pH of 4.2 4*0.1*50,000 / 100 = 200 ppm CaC03 equivalents or your total alkalinity is 4 meg/L (mg/L / 50 = meg/L). The above information was taken and corrected from this thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ion+alkalinity Randy provides further details in this article: What is Alkalinity http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/2/chemistry __________________ Cliff Babcock I know this seems a little "geeky" at first and difficult but it really is not... It takes about a minute to perform and if you do all the calculations and make a chart ( xml used = 10dkh and so on) it makes it very easy with NO math. If anyone would like to see how this is done you are welcome to come to my place and I can show you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackaninny Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Just got one with the liquid reagent but haven't used it yet. If Alex (near me) wanted to meet up sometime we could compare La Motte and the Hanna together on the same tank sample. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald525 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 The best alk testing is doing your own acid titration down to a ph of 4.2, super accurate and super cheap because you have to buy the acid by the gallon so you will have enough for years of use . Initial investment is a ph meter and the gallon of acid...good for years of testing! here is a clip from rc chemistry guys I know this seems a little "geeky" at first and difficult but it really is not... It takes about a minute to perform and if you do all the calculations and make a chart ( xml used = 10dkh and so on) it makes it very easy with NO math. If anyone would like to see how this is done you are welcome to come to my place and I can show you. Ahhh gotta love pharmacists LOL! I hate calculating this type of stuff. It's not difficult its' just not fun LOL. Thanks for the link (clap). Now how about calculating a prostaglandin drip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassi Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Harold, there is a long thread somewhere on RC about how just different ways to shake the cuvette would produce different results. They were advertised to eliminate that human error but this is not true, I was just pointing out that. When I think about an error free colorimeter I think about a device where I drop some water and I read a result on a screen, like a refractometer. I love my hanna po4, but if you don't use it well you can have different readings. Hanna did an excellent job in fixing the issue, but a really bad job when they put on the market a product that was not ready. Your job is to produce test equipment and you put on the market a product that is 1 dkh off??? It is like to put on the market a condom which is 50% safe lol As for Salifert, I only use their Iodine/de test because is the only one for a decent price. But I hate it. They are known to be inaccurate depending on the batch. Madmike is right, there is a thread in the chemistry forum that I started about this method. Works well, if you have a good ph probe and access to the reagent. Beth, you can find La Motte on many online stores and probably order it locally too (I never seen one, but I'm sure some store can carry it). I think I got mine at the Depot. Marc, we can try. I think they did it already and they found out that the results weren't so far away. From what I read the Hanna Alk is a good product now, but I prefer to use a more trusted source for testing Alk, especially if you have mostly sps in a low nutrient system where swings can produce a huge (bad) effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackaninny Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Hanna has a demonstration video on Youtube that shows how to shake the vial for the phosphate checker and how to open the reagent packet to get it all out and into the vial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I hate calculating this type of stuff. It's not difficult its' just not fun LOL Chicken! Do you want me to do the math for you and make a chart? Now how about calculating a prostaglandin drip? No thanks but I will call you when you when your amoxicillin dose for that 3 year old is too high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigjohnwoody Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 alex where do you get your la Motte test kits? They sell the LaMotte Alk test kit on BRS. I know you are heading up the group buy, so I know you are in. I am gonna join your group buy and I think gonna get the LaMotte and the Hanna and compare the two. I have Salifert right now and it always gives me the same readings. I thought they were a good test kit but Grassi has seemed to make me a bit skeptical now(scratch). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algae Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Hey John I can throw Elos and API into the mix in the PNWMAS TESTORAMA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold B Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I agree end point titration is the best method but in the relm of what most tank owners will end up with/doing this is IMO a huge step up in Alk testing accuracy. I'd like to compare results with you madmike somtime with the same samples that would be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold B Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Grassi I completely agree as far as releasing a product thats not 100% tried and true. And I have the PO4 meter and I know what you are talking about as far as certain "shakes" and other methods affecting outcomes BUT with the Alk meter its a whole different ballgame. Somehow the liquid reagent eliminates all of that stuff previously experienced with the powder reagents. It really is as simple as squirt it in and tip it up once and put it in the meter. Makes one wonder why they didn't use this type of reagent for the PO4 as well but i'm sure its a$ thing. They obviously tried to get away with it again just didn't work this time. This one produces much more repeatable results than with the PO4 one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 So I got my Hanna Checkers today! they look good so I got out my test kits Tunse and API. I ran the Hanna and it read 127, the conversion to Dkh was 0.056 so x 127 = 7.112 Dkh or meg/L x 0.02 = 2.54 meg/L. I did do a water change so I know the API go a little wild with change it read, 9-10 Dkh, The Tunse test was between 7-8 Dkh I ran the Phosphate test on the Hanna and it read 0.00, both Titration test were the same. I pulled my last test from AWT and it read Phosphate 0.01 and Alk 3.15 meg/L Looks pretty good to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold B Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Nice to know SMANN I think you'll like'em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Nice to know SMANN I think you'll like'em Yeah, They are pretty cool I hope they come out with more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I agree end point titration is the best method but in the relm of what most tank owners will end up with/doing this is IMO a huge step up in Alk testing accuracy. I'd like to compare results with you madmike somtime with the same samples that would be interesting. no problem, just let me know when Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algae Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Worth its own thread I started using the sulfuric acid method like Mike posted about, let me say after API, Salifert, Instant Ocean, Elos and Hanna-This is the way to go. I know the new hanna meter is cool and accurate as I have at least read but from a price standpoint its not even in the same world, maybe universe, I'm not sure Last friday I tested my tank since I am trying to dial in the Ca reactor since I had to move it to the new tank, well it tested 7.84 (LOL at the precise #) well I run a little higher so I bumped up the bubble count and tested today its 8.68, I'll see what tomorrow brings. So here is the great news-I use roughly 3ml of acid and at 25.00 for 2000ml, well 660+ tests. And Nurnberg Scientific carries it so its local no shipping. They sell 500 ml for 19.00 or 4000ml (4L) for 48.00- Do that math-(nutty) for the cost I bought the 4L and split it with Charles How much for a "reliable" test kit-(laugh) Anyway thanks Mike-(rock2) that has been the best thread I have read for advise-(clap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 No problem... glad to see someone taking the plunge and trying something new! And good find on the local source for the acid, in a couple of years when I run out of mine I'll pick some more up there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.