mister crabs Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 ok....so finally going to buy my plumbing crap tomorrow so i can get this tank wet. I am drilling one drain in the middle back panel near bottom and then two returns in same panel up near top. I am using a 45mm holesaw so im guessing 1" pvc will work all around. My questions are as follows: 1. if i build an overflow out of acrylic i want a tube going up inside the overflow nearly as tall as the overflow teeth for my drain pipe correct? 2. i am going to put a ball valve on the drain line to stop the flow for cleaning. good idea? 3. what are the bulkheads i need for the drain and returns coming thru the glass and can i get them at home depot? 4. my return line will have another ball valve and then it will "y" to create the two returns. any problems with this plan as far as hurting a return pump? 5. I am going to use regular schedule 40 white pvc unless there is a better alternative. I dont know if home depot sells the flexible hose and i hear that black or gray pvc is bad for fish tanks. true or myth? any pics or links to actual products would be greatly appreciated. i am trying to get it mostly at HD due to the fact that I have a $100 gift card there from xmas to use. and regualr pvc cement with the purple primer is ok to use right? and silicone is good as long as it doesnt have the mold stuff in it right? sorry for so many questions but this is my first actual tank with plumbing and a sump....lol I have run sumpless tanks before but i want a fuge and to hide the ugly equipment. thanks in advance guys! (clap) (clap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 ok....so finally going to buy my plumbing crap tomorrow so i can get this tank wet. I am drilling one drain in the middle back panel near bottom and then two returns in same panel up near top. I am using a 45mm holesaw so im guessing 1" pvc will work all around. My questions are as follows: 1. if i build an overflow out of acrylic i want a tube going up inside the overflow nearly as tall as the overflow teeth for my drain pipe correct? 2. i am going to put a ball valve on the drain line to stop the flow for cleaning. good idea? it would not hurt 3. what are the bulkheads i need for the drain and returns coming thru the glass and can i get them at home depot? Nope, no regular plumbing store carries them, LFS do though...Woody at seahorse has one of the best plumbing sections around, I know Joel carries them, and I am sure Travis at Upscales does as well 4. my return line will have another ball valve and then it will "y" to create the two returns. any problems with this plan as far as hurting a return pump? No you should be fine with doing this 5. I am going to use regular schedule 40 white pvc unless there is a better alternative. I dont know if home depot sells the flexible hose and i hear that black or gray pvc is bad for fish tanks. true or myth? Nope, sch. 40 will work great. no need to use anything else, the spa-flex, is still so new that people have not ran it for multiple years to see if it with stands the test of time, just go with regular PVC at home depot any pics or links to actual products would be greatly appreciated. i am trying to get it mostly at HD due to the fact that I have a $100 gift card there from xmas to use. and regualr pvc cement with the purple primer is ok to use right? and silicone is good as long as it doesnt have the mold stuff in it right? sorry for so many questions but this is my first actual tank with plumbing and a sump....lol I have run sumpless tanks before but i want a fuge and to hide the ugly equipment. thanks in advance guys! (clap) (clap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly guy Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Need more info on tank before we can talk about pipe and bulkhead sizes 1. You want a durso standpipe inside your overflow box http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/standpipe/standpipe_frame.htm 2. No ball valve necessary on your drain. You should just be able to shut off your return pump when you want to clean......of course........i cant remember ever having to clean my drain line. You will have to shut off the return pump anyway as if you installed and shut a ball valve on it and DIDNT shut off the return pump.........you would end up with water on the floor 3. You will need bulkheads.......size depends on tank size....you cant get them at HD...i hear Joel has them.....you probably can get them at a plumbing supply place near you too........if not you can order them from savko.com 4. no problems there.. You should always have a ball valve on the return line. What kind of pump are you going to use for the return?? 5. Home depot does sell flexible pvc. I recommend using it everywhere except for where a PERFECTLY straight run is required or for making nipples to connect fittings...in those instances you should use hard pvc. Flex is quieter if it is rubbing on anything and doesnt require precise cuts that some instances with hard pvc can. Grey pvc is typically schedule 80 pipe..it is thicker, it costs more and is unecessary for our applications. Black ABS pipe can have some bad stuff in it i have heard although i have used short runs of it in a pinch without issue. Regular pvc and primer will work great. Silicone without the mold inhibitor. hth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister crabs Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 am going to use a quiet one 2200 most likely.....maybe an mag 7? the flexible pvc is in the plumbing/garden irrigation area correct? comes in a roll like a garden hose but is gray/black?? does anyone know anywhere in or around albany/corvallis that sells bulkheads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly guy Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I would actually size the return pump in accordance to your skimmer. No use moving more wter through your sump than your skimmer can process....that way as little unskimmed water makes it back to the tank as possible. Call a couple of your local plumbing supply places.....they should have your flex pipe and your bulkheads. Flexible pvc is white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Here are my perspectives: 1. if i build an overflow out of acrylic i want a tube going up inside the overflow nearly as tall as the overflow teeth for my drain pipe correct? It depends how you are planning on draining the overflow. I have mine lower down, because I'm draining through a 90-degree elbow inside the overflow box through to an external durso standpipe. Using the elbow inside the overflow helps avoid slurping. Like this: 2. i am going to put a ball valve on the drain line to stop the flow for cleaning. good idea? I installed one, and am happy I did. If I just cut off the return pump (when feeding, for example) the water level in the tank drops enough that my Seio and MJMod cyclone air down from the surface and blow bubbles everywhere. Plus, I like having the ability to just stop the overflow in case something goes wrong. 4. my return line will have another ball valve and then it will "y" to create the two returns. any problems with this plan as far as hurting a return pump? No problems for the pump, just be sure to put a ball valve on every leg -- that way you can throttle the flow and cut off the siphon back down through the return if necessary. 5. I am going to use regular schedule 40 white pvc unless there is a better alternative. I dont know if home depot sells the flexible hose and i hear that black or gray pvc is bad for fish tanks. true or myth? Grey PVC is just schedule 80, thicker walled so stronger/more durable. White schedule-40 pipe (or even schedule-20 if you can find it and want to save a few bucks) is fine. The black stuff you see at HD and Lowe's is ABS; it is only used for drain applications, and you don't want to use it for aquarium stuff. i am trying to get it mostly at HD due to the fact that I have a $100 gift card there from xmas to use. and regualr pvc cement with the purple primer is ok to use right? You can get most of the plumbing stuff you need at HD. Parkrose Hardware also has a really good selection of plumbing bits, including all sorts of ball and gate valves. and silicone is good as long as it doesnt have the mold stuff in it right? Yes, the door and window silicon (not the kitchen stuff) is fine for glass-on-glass, and some light-load acrylic-to-glass connections (I put acrylic baffles in my glass sump using silicon and they're holding okay) but I wouldn't use it for acrylic-acrylic joints. Have fun :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister crabs Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 any disadvantagesto havingthe returns over the top of tank instead of thru the wall? I am trying to save myself some gray hair and only drill one hole in tank...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nu2reef-n Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Over the top returns work just as well. The canopy or hood will hide them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 The only disadvantage I've heard of with over-the-top overflows is the possibility of a flood if siphon is lost in the u-tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly guy Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Agree with Dave......i prefer the over the top returns........backsiphon is non issue as the water simply falls away, and the canopy hides them. You will need to make sure the water level in your sump can handle what will backsiphon until the water DOES fall away however. Have you decided on a skimmer yet?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 RIght, back-siphon isn't a problem with a well-sized sump but if you lose siphon on the drain your return can overflow the tank by draining the sump into the tank. Not saying it's particularly likely, just that it is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister crabs Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 nope.....still looking around....I am going to pick up an asm mini g used if its available.....or other than that i am looking for a remora. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister crabs Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 ok...thinking of using spa flex instead of the rigid pvc.....but i got a question.....how do i attatch it to the threads on the backside of the bulkhead? just slip it over and use a screw clamp? and then on my return do i just use a pvc "y" and then clamp the ends of the hose over the pvc? is this leakproof? It seems the threads would allow water to leak out......any ideas? maybe a female 1.25" adapter over the threads then the spaflex over the smooth adapter and then the clamp? im kinda stuck......and if i use flex hose how do i attach the ball valves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly guy Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 ok...thinking of using spa flex instead of the rigid pvc.....but i got a question.....how do i attatch it to the threads on the backside of the bulkhead? just slip it over and use a screw clamp? and then on my return do i just use a pvc "y" and then clamp the ends of the hose over the pvc? is this leakproof? It seems the threads would allow water to leak out......any ideas? maybe a female 1.25" adapter over the threads then the spaflex over the smooth adapter and then the clamp? im kinda stuck......and if i use flex hose how do i attach the ball valves? NO to the screw clamp. Use either a threaded male adapter or a threaded 90 into the bulkhead......the flex pipe is glued inside that. The spa flex is not to be clamped onto anything....it is glued in place just like regular pvc. Same goes for the "y".....the flex is glued inside the fitting......being as losing a l;ittle bit of flow doesnt usually matter on your return, you cna simply take a T and glue two 45's to it for your Y....Y's are hard to find. Same with ball valves.......use slip ball valves and glue the flex INSIDE the valve just like regular PVC. When you get the parts together...post again or call me if you still have my number......ill give you a few tricks to using flex PVC that will make it a little easier for ya. Also think in advance of what parts of this system might ever need to be removed..........install unions so you can easily do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Like this! Unions everywhere you think you might take it apart sometime for maintenance. I need more unions, but oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly guy Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 a picture says a thousand words Great example impur If i post a pic of the back of my tanks it doesnt usually help the explanation cause DOH! ...so i dont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister crabs Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 ok....the bottom ofyour pic impur with the bulkhead coming out of your sump is a good example for me.....the threads on the "inside" part of the bulkhead (the smooth face) I didnt have a problem finding a male adapter that screwed right into that.....the other side was larger and took a 1 1/4 inch female adapter and when i tried regular white pvc it only threaded on like .25" and stopped so i finally tried a gray pvc adapter from the electrical section and it screwed on completely. is there any harm in using these gray pvc fittings? I know the black is a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Grey is fine too. Thats what i make the MJmods out of! And thats what i used to make the bulkheads in my external overflow on the 29gal. Use teflon paste on them, not the tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister crabs Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 well....i drilled a hole successfully in the bottom middle of the back pane of glass today. no cracks!! i am doing over the top returns and then 1 or 2 maxi jets in tank for added flow. now i just gotta find a return pump and a pump for my skimmer. bought a used aqua c remora with prefilter box for $50 but no pump included. Im not going to use the prefilter box and i am going to set it up as a HOB off the side of the sump. it originally had a mag 3 running it. whats a good pump to use for it? and can i just get 2 identical pumps and have one for return or should i go for like 1.5 times the flow rate thru the return to compensate for the head loss and such? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister crabs Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 the link to the durso says that its gotta be 1 1/4" pvc for durso pipe setup. Any reason why? I gotta lot of 1" fittings and such but no 1.25" fittings. will it not work if its all 1" diameter? and for my drain line is there any reason i cant use clear vinyl tubing? and just glue it into the fittings with pvc cement?(scary) (scratch) (scary) (scratch) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I don't see why you couldn't... Some folks insist you need to have narrower diameter plumbing on the drain than on the return (or, is it on the return than on the drain? DOH!) but I used the same on mine and everything is fine. I'm pretty sure I used 1" when I plumbed, but I'm not positive. BTW, are you sure you can use PVC cement on vinyl tubing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister crabs Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 i dunno.....and i just siliconed in my overflow with GE silicone I and its the stuff that does NOT have the mold inhibitor.....but on the small print on the back it says not for use on aquariums....dunno why. is this just a liability issue so they dont get sued? im gonna go into chat as well so anyone that doesnt mind answering questions please come give me some feed back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Yah its a liability thing. My current dursos are 1" and 3/4". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriswaters Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Andy, I like your internal/external durso pipe. I bought a 1" bulkhead today at my LFS. No problem fiting a 1" in to the inside threads but wondering what size you used for the "T" on the exteranl, outside threads. I will be duplicating your set up and wonder what other tid bits you can offer. Kris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I think its 1.25" outside on those bulkheads. Take the bulkhead into HD and test it out, just find a T with threads that the bulkhead screws into. The fewer the connections, the less chances of a leak. In Andy's pic it looks like he either had the glue in bulkheads, or used a short nipple between the bulkhead and T. Use teflon paste on the threads, not the teflon tape. It works 100 times better for this application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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