International Report Cites Global Warming Cause, Effects

[H20cooled]

Says you. Meaning' date=' that is how you feel not how I feel. Im not trying to freak people out at all. Im looking at the fact provided by people who do this for a living. Its seems a bit naive to disregard the information provided by people who study this day in and day out. Seems....silly and childish not to take action. [/quote']

First of all I'm not saying that you are trying to freak people out, but that is definitely the purpose of the media and movies. The other thing is there are NO facts when it comes to Global Warming, so your argument that I'm being silly and childish be ignoring them is pointless. We've already discussed and you have agreed that studies can and are mostly likely biased to one side so I would also argue that what they might present as "facts" are not anything more then a guess.

 

No. You can stand up and opine all you like but that is what it is...an opinion. Again, Ill stick with the facts as we know them now rather than wait it out and see what happens.

As I said there are still NO facts, only a lot of theories pushed out by groups with agendas.

 

FYI you didnt answer my question either.

Last point, agreed!

 

Yes, if someone was going to blow up a building and we had proof that they are, then stop them. But if you have someone making theories that someone could blow up a building, you would not run out and announce it in every news paper and make movies about it.

 

Ok, I'm done now, we could go on and on like this forever...(nutty)

[Piero]

I completely agree with you on that' date=' and I think that the oil companies are most likely the reason that we do not have a car that uses something else beside fossil fuels. They have HUGE pocket books and can afford to pay off politicians. I also don't think that its the scientific community that is trying to deceive people, I would but my money on the Environmental groups that also have huge pocket books. So, I guess we are all stuck between to groups with opposing agendas.[/quote']

 

i agree with you there, H2.(agree) With that said, if the corporate/industry agenda is profit, then what's the agenda of the scientific community, the health of the planet and humanity? That doesn't sound so bad compared to the alternative.

 

I'm just as irritated by PETA-type extremists(at the risk of stereotyping) and impractical radical environmentalists as anybody. I'm even guilty of impersonating one occasionally, as some are well aware, because it's a reliable way to draw attention to a point(although some may not get it). But when faced with the realities mentioned previously, well, you can see where my chips lie.

 

I learned a lot about where you're coming from though, so thanks. Skepticism is a good thing regardless!

[Piero]

But if you have someone making theories that someone could blow up a building' date=' you would not run out and announce it in every news paper and make movies about it.[/quote']

 

maybe not, but you would probably tell the authorities, and it would be on the news i bet after they evacuated the building 'just in case'.

 

Preemptive safety measures are involved in almost every part of life, from fire hazards to the most obvious, terrorism, so why shouldn't we be preemptively safe with regard to the health of the environment? Someone once said, "better safe than sorry".

[cyenna]

I'd just like to note that in the past two hundred years humans have expanded to every part of this globe. A single species has exploited nearly every earthly resource and dominated all other species. Global warming is part of the natural cycle but temperatures have never raised at the rate that it is occurring today. With the expansion of human population and industrial economies (e.g., China) global warming is much worse and occurring at a much faster rate than mother nature can compensate as she has done in the past.

 

I do not see the report as a "scare" tactic. It's merely a truth. If you want scare tactics, ask Bush about Iraq.

[H20cooled]

I'd just like to note that in the past two hundred years humans have expanded to every part of this globe. A single species has exploited nearly every earthly resource and dominated all other species. Global warming is part of the natural cycle but temperatures have never raised at the rate that it is occurring today. With the expansion of human population and industrial economies (e.g., China) global warming is much worse and occurring at a much faster rate than mother nature can compensate as she has done in the past.

 

I do not see the report as a "scare" tactic. It's merely a truth. If you want scare tactics, ask Bush about Iraq.

 

I'm sorry but you are plain and simply wrong, temperatures have been raised in the past, if you do not believe that think about the Ice Ages of the past. Wouldn't you say that a meltdown of ice across the planet is a temperature change? Yes we as humans are all over the globe, and we are adding a lot of stuff to the planet that was probably not there in the past. But I do believe that the planet can handle it, I think I give the planet a lot more credit then others do and I think it is a LOT more resilient then you think it is. If you think about what happened in the past with the complete destruction of the dinosaurs that was a huge event and pretty much wiped everything out. But some how the planet kept going.

 

Also there is NO proof that the planet is actually warming at this time, here is a good quote from an article I read:

 

"While ground-level temperature measurements suggest the earth has warmed between 0.3 and 0.6 degrees Celsius since 1850, global satellite data, the most reliable of climate measure-

ments, show no evidence of warming during the past 18 years. Even if the earth's temperature has increased slightly, the increase is well within the natural range of known temperature variation over the last 15,000 years. Indeed, the earth experienced greater warming between the 10th and 15th centuries - a time when vineyards thrived in England and Vikings colonized Greenland and built settlements in Canada."

[drock59]

We've already discussed and you have agreed that studies can and are mostly likely biased to one side so I would also argue that what they might present as "facts" are not anything more then a guess.

 

So we live in a fact less universe with absolutely no truths, check! Just playing around at this point. We are never going to agree with each other and that is ok. I just hope more people agree with me and science. (clap)

 

 

Ok, I'm done now, we could go on and on like this forever...

 

I think ive heard this before, but ya I think I am finally done here. Thanks for explaining your side so rationally. I honestly appreciate it....its nice to see both sides of the coin occasionally.

 

Piero, you have a nice way of putting things.

Someone once said, "better safe than sorry".

This is my bottom line and the point I have been trying to make all along.

[drock59]

I'm sorry but you are plain and simply wrong, temperatures have been raised in the past, if you do not believe that think about the Ice Ages of the past.

 

H2O, she is not wrong. Why are you stuck on the ice ages thing? There is data from the antarctic ice that dates back through the last three, if not more, ice ages. Temps never rose as fast and CO2 was never as high as it is now. Not wrong, just cold hard science( forgive the terrible pun.).

 

 

I do believe that the planet can handle it, I think I give the planet a lot more credit then others do and I think it is a LOT more resilient then you think it is.

 

Sure it is. It will just kill off every living thing on the planet until it has balance. Small, insignificant consequence. (scary) I think it is naive to think that over 6 Billion humans cannot have an impact on something like the planet Earth.

[cyenna]

I'm sorry but you are plain and simply wrong

 

I don't understand why you said I am wrong when I admitted that yes, there have been global warmings before. I think the thing we disagree on is whether or not the planet can handle the RATE at which it is warming. We shall agree to disagree.

 

Ok, sorry to keep pushing the subject.DOH!

[drock59]

bump?

 

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=newsOne&storyID=2007-01-30T210856Z_01_N30346494_RTRUKOC_0_US-BUSH-WARMING.xml&WTmodLoc=Home-C1-TopStories-newsOne-3

 

 

That is good. Terrible source too!

[Chief]

bump? muahahahahahaha

 

Thats got an evil tone to it. (laugh)

 

I don't think it is the message... I think it is the messenger. I think there is too much negativity in the message. "If we don't do this... This will happen." "If we don't clean up this... This will happen."

 

The end of the world, no hope for our children, etc.

 

How about a proactive approach. Let's do it because it is the right thing to do. We should want to clean up the world to keep it healthy, not because of some impending doom.

 

Let's be honest... The world will be here long after we have been extinct. It is not the world we are trying to save... It is our own self-destructive lives. We need to "want" to be better.

 

I think it needs to be for the right reasons. We cannot save the Earth. We do not have the proper knowledge to save it. We can do our best to be a good member of the planet though.

 

Let's start a postitive message. The current message talks about what will happen in 100 years. Most people won't care. Not their problem.

 

Start small, work big. Even at last years beach clean-up, we had very little response from our reefkeeping community. But guess what... I will be out there again next year, and the year after that until I can inspire some change.

 

I honestly don't know if global warming is a natural occurance or if we are causing it. There just isn't enough good data. But I do know that we are polluting our planet and that must change.

 

Jay

[drock59]

Well said, minus this part.... :)

 

There just isn't enough good data.

[Chief]

Let's take this paragraph for example...

 

The report will draw on already published peer-review science. Some recent scientific studies show that temperatures are the hottest in thousands of years, especially during the last 30 years; ice sheets in Greenland in the past couple years have shown a dramatic melting

 

Where is the temperature data for the last 1000 years? As far as I knew we were only recording temp data since 1850. And why quote the ice melting in Greenland and not Antarctica. Antarctica holds 90% of the worlds ice, Greenland only 4%. Wouldn't it be more significant to report the ice melting there. There have been some studies that show that the ice in Antarctica is growing. That sea ice has increased since 1979. As with all biased studies, we only hear about one side of the argument. What if we only heard about one side of the politicians that we are voting for or one side of a murder trial. It is not fair.

 

In 2001, the panel said the world's average temperature would increase somewhere between 2.5 and 10.4 degrees Fahrenheit and the sea level would rise between 4 and 35 inches by the year 2100

 

That is a large margin of error. If my math is alright, that is over a 400% margin of error (2.5 - 10.4 degrees). The sea level rise is about a 850% margin of error. That sounds like a guess to me. Even an educated guess is still a guess.

 

Again, I am not arguing against cleaning up the planet. I just want the truth. I hope this study sheds some light on the subject. But the data must be scrutinized.

 

Please take this lightheartedly. I am not trying to win anyone over. Everyone has a right to their opinion. And they should stand by their opinion. Like I said before. I just want the truth, and a proactive approach to obtain results.

 

Jay

[Piero]

science forums here, here , or here.

 

List of climate science resources, here, and here.

[Chief]

Thanks for the links. Good reading.

 

Jay

[drock59]

Pretty sure I quoted how they are recording temperature and CO2 level a couple pages back. Ice core samples. They can go back hundreds of thousands of years.

[Piero]

Al Gore - Nobel Nominee

The fight for the global climate is a fight for peace, say members of parliament Børge Brende and Heidi Sørensen, and they have nominated former US Vice-president Al Gore for a share of the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

Canadian environmentalist Sheila Watt-Cloutier is now nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.Former US VP Al Gore has thrust the global climate change issue into the public consciousness. The two green-thinking MPs suggest that Gore share the prize with Inuit Sheila Watt-Cloutier, in recognition for their efforts to put the danger posed by climate change on the global political agenda.

 

"This is clearly, absolutely, one of the important efforts to achieve conflict prevention. Climate change can lead to enormous flows of refugees on a scale the world has never seen before. Fighting climate change is immensely important work for global peace," Heidi Sørensen, member of parliament for the Socialist Left Party (SV), told Aftenposten.

[Piero]

The official UN report is released tomorrow. The media is a-buzz. LINK

CNN feature on the report

[drock59]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070202/ap_on_sc/france_climate_change

[Twitterbait]

um... Yawn... yup, that sums it up for me. these same idiots (sorry, "scientists/media") were proclaming a new ice age 30 years ago and now we are all going to burn up because their "science" proves it.

 

Don't care... the gasses we produce in our cars don't even make it that high in the atmosphere because they weigh to friggin much. a little rain and they come down. big deal.

 

so you have me up against multiple threats right now. personally, I know there are people out there in this world who have goals and plans to kill people in my country. this is something we know so i figure we should put our efforts into the current known threat. we could spend a ton of money on this retarded baseless crap or we can put a little more effort into homlessness, and hunger. something tells me these threats will kill me a he** of a lot faster that a few degrees that some "scientist" is running around screaming about.

 

Piero, why don't you ever post reports on those problems???? Like the massive amount of homeless we have here in Oregon?

[drock59]

Im sorry, but that was one of the most ignorant and self serving posts I have ever read.

 

 

Don't care... the gasses we produce in our cars don't even make it that high in the atmosphere because they weigh to friggin much. a little rain and they come down. big deal.

 

What? What does it matter how high the CO2 is? It is still a greenhouse gas and still trap reflected heat from the sun. Obviously there will be more concentration of this gas toward the surface, as with any gas.

 

I know there are people out there in this world who have goals and plans to kill people in my country.

 

Gee I cant imagine why....

 

could spend a ton of money on this retarded baseless crap

 

Using words like retarded, makes you sound like a mean person. OH and baseless? Hmmm, people who spend their whole careers studying something must not have any idea what they are talking about. It has to be the media....oh wait, the liberal media.

 

Dont drink the cool-aid.

 

If you had a heart problem would you go talk to you neighbor about how to fix it? Would you listen to the pundit on the TV? Would you talk to your religious guru? No, you would go talk to a heart surgeon.

 

 

retarded baseless crap or we can put a little more effort into homlessness, and hunger.

 

Maybe we could solve those problems....sure, no problem. Especially if we didint spend over 350 billion dollars in Iraq. Imagine what we could do with all that money.

 

This is really uplifting: http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2006/01/08/economists_say_cost_of_war_could_top_2_trillion/

 

Piero, why don't you ever post reports on those problems???? Like the massive amount of homeless we have here in Oregon?

 

Just a shot in the dark here, but maybe he didnt talk about that because this thread is about Global Warming? Am I right or am i right?

 

 

We rely on Science so heavily and it has been correct so many times. Why is it so ridiculous to think they could be correct about Global Warming? Why is a bad thing to try and correct it?

I dont see the down side and its better to be safe than sorry.

 

Global Warming may not directly effect you Twitterbait, but that doesnt mean it will not grossly harm millions of people around the world, not to mention the wildlife we care for and love so much in our tanks. Why not try and stop that? Even if you are not sure its happening?

 

 

Do you feel that humans are not capable of changing conditions globally? There are six billion of us. We are able to effect the Earth in many ways.

[Piero]

um... Yawn... yup, that sums it up for me. these same idiots (sorry, "scientists/media") were proclaming a new ice age 30 years ago and now we are all going to burn up because their "science" proves it.

 

Don't care... the gasses we produce in our cars don't even make it that high in the atmosphere because they weigh to friggin much. a little rain and they come down. big deal.

 

so you have me up against multiple threats right now. personally, I know there are people out there in this world who have goals and plans to kill people in my country. this is something we know so i figure we should put our efforts into the current known threat. we could spend a ton of money on this retarded baseless crap or we can put a little more effort into homlessness, and hunger. something tells me these threats will kill me a he** of a lot faster that a few degrees that some "scientist" is running around screaming about.

 

Piero, why don't you ever post reports on those problems???? Like the massive amount of homeless we have here in Oregon?

 

DOH! oooookaaaaaaayyyy.

[Twitterbait]

Drock, I am entitled to my opinion and i gave it. think what you want but pretty much everyone i know agrees with me that global warming is more fiction than fact.

 

you have my thoughts, i assume that is what piero wanted (why else would he do this post?)

 

if you don't want my opinion then don't start a thread about it.

 

now, back to fish.

[Piero]

I agree Drock.

Today's CNN video on climate change possibly affecting reefs. Miles Obrien feature on climate change.

 

"Education is everything, people!"

- Oprah

[drock59]

if you don't want my opinion then don't start a thread about it.

 

I didnt. I just have a hard time when people wont believe science because they are too stubborn to believe in it.

[H20cooled]

Man I can just see were this whole thing is going. Everything that seems wrong, looks wrong, or in someones opinion is wrong is going to get blamed on Global Warm. The media is having a HUGE hay day with it, but you know what they say this is no news like bad news right.

 

As for the topic, I'm done arguing, I think in the end we will all be surprised one way or the other.