CCR Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 WOW a lot of reading. It took me so long to go through all the post's I had to take a nap!!!!!The redundancy was overwhelming. Was it “We disagree, to agree” or “We agree, to disagree” well witch ever it is, or was. But that’s what we humans do. The controversy will go on for a long long time. There is a never ending supply of hot buttons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly guy Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 WOW a lot of reading. It took me so long to go through all the post's I had to take a nap!!!!!The redundancy was overwhelming. Was it “We disagree' date=' to agree” or “We agree, to disagree” well witch ever it is, or was. But that’s what we humans do. The controversy will go on for a long long time. There is a never ending supply of hot buttons.[/quote'] I agree. Wait a minute.....no i dont.....its YOU. I firmly DISAGREE!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nu2reef-n Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 This kind of open discourse is what makes this site so good. Anywhere else and you guys would have been banned, and the thread closed. Let's hear it for the mods, or....er...the lack of them.=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 This kind of open discourse is what makes this site so good. Anywhere else and you guys would have been banned' date=' and the thread closed. Let's hear it for the mods, or....er...the lack of them.=)[/quote'] Yeah, I agree...thanks guys for letting me stay around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drock59 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 As am I....cause I am no longer offering anything useful to the thread... Were you in the first place? You simply brought a bunch of rediculous links and a terrible tone to the thread. Most who believe the human cause of global warming have done no research to both sides...Give me sometime and I will find just as many people who disprove the theory of the human's causing it...the whole car thing does not hold water...cause the numbers would be cut down the middle if you are not one sided about the whole issue, so yes you would a tough time picking cause 50% would say the clutch needs to be replaced and the other 50% would say it was your syncros. Forgive me, i must be a little slow. I didnt understand your point or logic here. Your going to quote wkik, and call into questions to validity of my sources...come one now... Come on what? WHAT? Nary a one is peer reviewed. you cant claim much of anything and consider it lagit if its not peer reviewed. Period. End of story. You know drock...you result to name calling on here when someone expresses something in a manner that differs from yours. Ya, i called you a two year old bully so this is pretty obvious. I didnt realize it would upset your feelings so much, forgive me. I have a good feeling you do not know where that quote comes from... I never said he was wise, it is a funny statement from the top comedian, who keeps me laughing which keeps me sane. I hate no one on this board...even you, but I always find it funny when someone strongly disagrees with you that you result to personal insults...it never fails with you... Dane Cook maybe? I took it from your signature. do you know me? Did i say i hated you? Personal insults? you must get offended pretty easily, I apologize. However, please dont impugn my integrity and tell what I do and do not do on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drock59 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 So in the words of a wise man, "I hate you, please go swallow a knife"- Dane Cook FYI this was not meant to be directly aimed at anyone, I just thought it was funny. Seriously, I would not say that to anyone here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronjunior Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 This thread is going to hell in a handbasket. (backtotopic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piero Posted February 14, 2007 Author Share Posted February 14, 2007 [language filter] I give up, I was trying to find a clip from Home Movies referencing orange slices at the soccer game. :( oh well, instead: yomomomomomeemo! link it was the greatest show of all time. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20cooled Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Enough with the insults and rude comments; don't make me lock this. I know we can all play nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitterbait Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Should have been locked a long time ago IMO. It can be nice to have a much more open and free site to play in... but it is not pleasant to get flamed. the very reason i never visit RC. threads like this really belong on climate forums, notwhere we are trying to discuss keeping our reef tanks happy. just my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piero Posted February 18, 2007 Author Share Posted February 18, 2007 Despite a few impulsive statements and over-reactions, I thought the thread self-regulated relatively well. It has been informative to all involved I think, and it is appropriately located in the off-topic forum. It has also been inactive for five days, until now. So as strong as your expressed desire to quiet the discussion, the need to post more disapproval is seemingly stronger. I realize that the fluctuating intensity of such exchanges can appear exhausting or uncomfortable at times, but I've seen prep school debates and CNN broadcasts with more drama. There are plenty of trivial on-topic discussions of coral care with more conflict issues than this thread. Effectively expressing clear, analytical, and objective thought on emotional and inherently subjective topics can be a challenge, especially while our own perspective is besieged. Effective debate though, imo, is often the product of contributors who embrace that challenge. The need to stifle natural tendencies towards reactionary or impulsive behavior can be daunting as well, but nobody is forced to participate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20cooled Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Yeah I think it has strayed off a couple of times, but overall I think the discussion has been very civil. We try very hard not to over moderate like what is done on TRT and RC, but if it gets out of hand I will lock it. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piero Posted February 18, 2007 Author Share Posted February 18, 2007 Richard thank you for all your effort. Hopefully my attempts at presenting the community as one that is mature enough for self-moderation are not contradicted too quickly by a spat over doughnuts or something, eh? Everyone knows bagels are clearly superior anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20cooled Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Man this just continues to get better and better. Now cows are more to blame for Global warming then vehicles. I guess we should now ban all beef... LINK Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today's most serious environmental problems," Henning Steinfeld, senior author of the report, said when the FAO findings were released in November. Livestock are responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse-gas emissions as measured in carbon dioxide equivalent, reports the FAO. This includes 9 percent of all CO2 emissions, 37 percent of methane, and 65 percent of nitrous oxide. Altogether, that's more than the emissions caused by transportation. "Arguably the best way to reduce global warming in our lifetimes is to reduce or eliminate our consumption of animal products," writes Noam Mohr in a report for EarthSave International. Changing one's diet can lower greenhouse gas emissions quicker than shifts away from fossil fuel burning technologies, Mr. Mohr writes, because the turnover rate for farm animals is shorter than that for cars and power plants. See, we all need to become vegetarians, ride our bike everywhere, and don't give anyone flowers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piero Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 heheh, yeah that could be applied to anything i suppose... there sure are a lot of methane pumps out there since we have to feed 6.5 billion people meat... I can imagine if we had enough cows-a-farting in a closed system(like earth), eventually a methane concentration issue may arise, eh. Actually output of anything i a closed system unable to process it results in problems i guess. ok so in order to save the world, everyone need sot stop farting...I'm gonna blame mexican food mostly! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drock59 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Methane is a potent greenhouse gas. I believe it causes something like 20 times as much warming when compared to CO2. Also, i believe it is somewhere in the neighborhood of 18% of the greenhouse gases presently, the others being CO2 and Nitrous Oxide. H20, I think the point here is that we are continuing to live a more and more affluent life. We eat a lot of meat in the US and developing countries ,who used to eat very little meat, now are eating more. Doesnt it stand to reason that more people eating meat= more methane= more greenhouse effect? Dont get me wrong, im not saying that everyone should stop eating meat, but it is certainly something to marinate on....no pun intended. If we did start eating less meat several things would happen. First, heart disease would decrease. Secondly, we wouldnt need to cut down a bunch of rain forest for cattle to graze. My sister in law works for a "meat" company and they get every last lb. of beef from south America. Lastly, if beef was eliminated from the diet of the planet, there would be a decrease in green house gases. I am not sure why you are poking fun at this? It is logical that animals/cows are having an impact but not plausible to expect everyone to cease eating meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20cooled Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Why because its just like I've been saying all long; they are going to find away to blame everything on Global Warming. Its the new scape goat for every problem and issue. It just cracks me up, you watch its going to lose all credibility very quickly as everyone gets tired of seeing everything they loved blamed for Global warming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drock59 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 That is exactly the problem though isnt it? Many many things Americans and Human beings love DOES contribute to global warming. What exactly has been blamed for global warming that would not be good to change? Automobiles, Energy, Industry all seem like they could lead the world in a new frontier of energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 That is exactly the problem though isnt it? Many many things Americans and Human beings love DOES contribute to global warming. What exactly has been blamed for global warming that would not be good to change? Automobiles, Energy, Industry all seem like they could lead the world in a new frontier of energy. So, you must ride your bike, heat your house with solar panels and eat nothing.... I am sure you drive a car...there are only a few very common ways to heat your house and out of all of those electricity and natural gas produce the least amount of co2, and even if you do not eat meat, it takes be god awful horrible gas guzzling tractors and farm equipment to get you your veggies... People are trying to blame everything on humans...the ice core samples from 400k years ago show that they were cooler then we are right now but had triple to c02 in the air...so explain to me how that can be, if humans c02 is the issue...it is earth's natural cycle. There is a much bigger agenda then simply saving the enviroment to this whole global warming thing...if the government can control how we use our energy, they have a huge strong hold on us... People who buy into this whole thing...is like the people that buy into...GPS in every car, so the government can tax people dependent on how they drive...no they want to keep tabs on us... Your right Rich, the global warming fanatics are pushing this way to hard and people are going to get sick of it...it is like when you hear a song on the radio to much, you get tired of it... Do we need other means of energy use? Yes, we should try to be as clean as we can...but thinking that the earth does not have normal warming and cooling period is crazy...Tell me once we all ride bikes, live off air and do nothing that takes energy what will be the reason for global warming then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piero Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Why because its just like I've been saying all long; they are going to find away to blame everything on Global Warming. Its the new scape goat for every problem and issue. I'm guessing there's just as much actual evidence behind methane's reactions in the atmosphere as here are co2. what is the proposed motivation 'they' have for blaming things that are not contributing? Just to draw attention? douibtful...I'm not much of a conspiracy fan, unless it has logic behind it. so what are the chances a) they are scapegoating 'everything' on climate change, or b) there's actually evidence methane is a huge contributor along with c02? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'm guessing there's just as much actual evidence behind methane's reactions in the atmosphere as here are co2. what is the proposed motivation 'they' have for blaming things that are not contributing? Just to draw attention? douibtful...I'm not much of a conspiracy fan, unless it has logic behind it. so what are the chances a) they are scapegoating 'everything' on climate change, or b) there's actually evidence methane is a huge contributor along with c02? So lets take your thought on option B...what do we do about a major food source causing this methane problem? What is your proposal to solve this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piero Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 idunno, less breeding, more veggie burgers, and Gass-ex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drock59 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 So, you must ride your bike, heat your house with solar panels and eat nothing.... I am sure you drive a car...there are only a few very common ways to heat your house and out of all of those electricity and natural gas produce the least amount of co2, and even if you do not eat meat, it takes be god awful horrible gas guzzling tractors and farm equipment to get you your veggies... I choose to drive a car that gets over 30 miles per gallon. Couldnt the federal government raise the required limits for fuel efficiency. Toyota and Honda are kicking the butts of American car companies and in their respective countries, fuel efficiency standards are MUCH higher than ours. To heat your house you could buy natural gas. If you use electric to heat your house, you could buy investments from your power company in wind, solar, biomass energy for very little each month. I do and I believe its an extra 7 dollars a month. That 7 dollars offsets a lot of CO2, not to mention i get a neat little report showing me exactly where my money is going. People are trying to blame everything on humans...the ice core samples from 400k years ago show that they were cooler then we are right now but had triple to c02 in the air...so explain to me how that can be, if humans c02 is the issue...it is earth's natural cycle. Sorry, this is not true. The ice core samples that date back 600K years show a close relationship between CO2 and global temperature. CO2 has NEVER EVER in the last 600K years been nearly as high in concentration as currently. There is a much bigger agenda then simply saving the enviroment to this whole global warming thing...if the government can control how we use our energy, they have a huge strong hold on us... People who buy into this whole thing...is like the people that buy into...GPS in every car, so the government can tax people dependent on how they drive...no they want to keep tabs on us... The GPS thing will never happen, people wont stand for it. Secondly, if its a big government plot, who is in charge? Certainly not our fearless leader. Lets say for giggles, that you are correct and that its a conspiracy. What would change regarding our goverements hold on how we buy energy. We would still buy and be taxed on the energy we buy from the power company. Fuels would still be taxed and regulated? I dont understand your reasoning. Your right Rich, the global warming fanatics are pushing this way to hard and people are going to get sick of it...it is like when you hear a song on the radio to much, you get tired of it... Maybe its more like the fire marshal telling you to replace that outlet or you are going to burn your house down. Soon enough the fire marshal is going to get pissed and insist that the outlet is fixed before you burn yourself and your kids up. You may get tired of it and think the marshall is wrong, but he is the expert... Do we need other means of energy use? Yes, we should try to be as clean as we can...but thinking that the earth does not have normal warming and cooling period is crazy... As clean as we can? Why not just plain old clean? Also, I dont think anyone is resisting the fact that the Earth does have warming and cooling trends....youre right that is crazy. The issue is that we are causing unprecedented warming and levels of CO2 in the atmosphere. Tell me once we all ride bikes, live off air and do nothing that takes energy what will be the reason for global warming then? Natural periods of warming and cooling. It will still get warmer if we do all those things and lealve the CO2 in the atmosphere at its current level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefgeek84 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I choose to drive a car that gets over 30 miles per gallon. Couldnt the federal government raise the required limits for fuel efficiency. Toyota and Honda are kicking the butts of American car companies and in their respective countries, fuel efficiency standards are MUCH higher than ours. To heat your house you could buy natural gas. If you use electric to heat your house, you could buy investments from your power company in wind, solar, biomass energy for very little each month. I do and I believe its an extra 7 dollars a month. That 7 dollars offsets a lot of CO2, not to mention i get a neat little report showing me exactly where my money is going. Sorry, this is not true. The ice core samples that date back 600K years show a close relationship between CO2 and global temperature. CO2 has NEVER EVER in the last 600K years been nearly as high in concentration as currently. The GPS thing will never happen, people wont stand for it. Secondly, if its a big government plot, who is in charge? Certainly not our fearless leader. Lets say for giggles, that you are correct and that its a conspiracy. What would change regarding our goverements hold on how we buy energy. We would still buy and be taxed on the energy we buy from the power company. Fuels would still be taxed and regulated? I dont understand your reasoning. Maybe its more like the fire marshal telling you to replace that outlet or you are going to burn your house down. Soon enough the fire marshal is going to get pissed and insist that the outlet is fixed before you burn yourself and your kids up. You may get tired of it and think the marshall is wrong, but he is the expert... As clean as we can? Why not just plain old clean? Also, I dont think anyone is resisting the fact that the Earth does have warming and cooling trends....youre right that is crazy. The issue is that we are causing unprecedented warming and levels of CO2 in the atmosphere. Natural periods of warming and cooling. It will still get warmer if we do all those things and lealve the CO2 in the atmosphere at its current level. Well, you will never change my mind and I will never change yours...I will not jump on this band wagon of the sky is falling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drock59 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Honestly man, I am not saying the sky is falling. I would honestly like someone to show me a bit of peer reviewed science to back the "other" side. I just havnt seen it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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