Flame Angelfishes - 2nd one might not make it

[icel]

A bit less than a month ago I got a Flame Angelfish for my tank- it was beautiful, and it was in perfect condition. Transparent full fins, shiny clear eyes and was eating food and pecking the rocks. I took it home, drip acclimated, and my Tomato clownfish attacked him violently so I traded the Tomato in for an ocellaris 2 days later since he wouldn't stop.

In the course of that fight, the Tomato shredded his fins and attacked his eye.

 

His fins grew back soon but over the course of a week he developed pop-eye on the one eye. I looked this up and apparently was just a sort of bruise if on one eye only, and the fish would recover on it's own. I started adding garlic to his food to try to boost his immune system, and added Epsom salt (per WWM's instruction) to reduce inflation. Was changing 10 gallons of water out each week. He was eating normally. Finally after two weeks the inflation on the one eye started to go down and went to normal, except for a bit of cloudiness. I noticed that he had this weird white film (Not dots like ich, just a film) that started to grow on his pectoral fins and tail fin. I was told that this was a bacterial infection and as long as he was eating, this would go away on it's own. I continued using the garlic and changing 10 gallons a week. Params were consistent:

 

pH: 8.1

Am: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrates: 10

 

But then it went downhill..

On the 3rd week he would just hide.. He would come out and swim very little and he would go back and hide for most of the day, but he would come and eat during feedings. The parts of his fins that were covered in the film were now all shredded. He was a bit discolored. The one eye was still cloudy.. I continued the water changes and the parameters were still the same, and my other fish were exactly as they've always been.

On December 15th he started to swim near the top of the water erratically and started to gasp at the surface! I checked the ammonia quickly, but it was 0, and all other params were the same. Unfortunately he died an hour later at the bottom of the tank.. it was terrible. :( I blamed his death on the fact that he was probably really stressed out from the evil tomato clownfish and acclimation.

 

The next day I went to the LFS with my sister for water to do another water change with, and I decided to try another flame angelfish, though it was an inch smaller. Was also in very good condition, shiny clear eyes and clear fins, eating. Drip acclimated, and he was fine for the first 3 days, exploring the whole tank and was alert. Though he didn't eat much, but did show a clear interest in the food.

On the 4th day he started to get cloudy eyes and same white film that the last angelfish got! Params were the same, though nitrates had gone up to 20.

Instead of swimming through the rocks, he kind of just stayed mid-column and would swim in these little slow circles and ignored food.

 

3 days later, he hasn't eaten a thing. He looked deathly skinny, pale, and the fins were starting to look shredded as well. 2 hours ago I decided I would try to force feed him. I grinded up raw squid and added a few drops of garlic. I gently scooped him up with my hand to the top of the tank (he didnt try to swim away), only let his mouth out of the water, and with a clean eyedropper I put several drops of the squid into his mouth. I saw him do that "kissy" motion angelfish do when they eat something, so I guess it may have worked.

He was breathing pretty quickly after 3 rounds of this, so I turned off the lights. He stopped doing the little circles and dropped near the bottom of the tank and laid on the sand, breathing fast.

I checked parameters, everything was fine except the pH was a bit low (7.8), which is weird because I thought it goes up near the end of the light cycle? Anyway since it could have been due to low oxygen I connected an air pump to a powerhead.

For about 10 minutes he did this weird slow falling motion where his head was facing upright, for 20 minutes he sat on the sand with his head leaning on the glass, 20 minutes he was swimming around slowly and got stuck to the powerhead intake twice.. then he hid behind the rocks for about 40 minutes, he came out and swam around the tank mid-column slowly for 20 minutes, and now he's laying sideways on the sand in the front corner.. probably will die any minute now. (sad)

 

 

 

 

Sorry for the huge wall of text, but I'm really confused. I thought Flame Angels were moderately hardy? Or do they just really hate me? This is the second Flame angel that was perfectly fine when I got it and deteriorated in my tank when my Params were fine and all my other fish were normal.. None of my other fish got the cloudy fins. Nobody was bothering him. Everyone was fine. Is this some rare Angelfish-only fungus going on in my tank? Or just bad luck? I would like to know what I am doing wrong. My sister got me the second Angel for Christmas and now I feel like the biggest a*****e in the world for killing two of them in less than a month.. :(

 

Tank specs:

 

55 Gallon FOWLR

tiny Snowflake eel

Melanurus Wrasse

Sixline wrasse

Ocellaris Clownfish

(Soon to be dead..) Flame angel

Couple of hermits, turbos

70 lbs LR

 

Any help or advice would be really appreciated.

[jgf86123]

1 quick thing, you need a larger CUC, mine's bigger than that, an I need to at least triple it, on a 40b :P

 

Second, check out Marine Velvet and Brookynella, brook is also called the clownfish disease, but other fish can get it to.

 

If it's either of those, an he's this far gone, he's probably dead. But, don't add anything else, and get the rest of your fish out of the tank an QT them for roughly 6 weeks.

[icel]

He didn't make it.. but I guess it was obvious he wouldn't. :( No more angelfishes for me ever.

 

 

jgf86123, I'm pretty sure they didn't get Velvet or Brookynella. The cloudy film only affected their pectoral and tail fins, not their body, and caused them to disintegrate. So I'm thinking it was something bacteria-related, but then again it's strange that both of them got the same symptoms.

[rubberduck9]

dont say that

 

Dont say never my friend. Angelfish are a beautiful and welcome adition to the aquarium. That said the flame in the recent years has become harder to keep. Its hit and mis with them and I definatley wouldnt call them hardy. A good thing to ask when buying from lfs is to ask how long they have had the fish. You may be buying a fish that just arived. So it has to get over the shock of shippment. Emagine jumping on a plane to china and then 2 hours later you jump on another plane to the middle east. Very stressfull! Try and shoot for a fish that has been there for over 2 weeks. maybe even a month. Also if you like the angelfish, check out the cherub or potters. They are going to fare better then the flame. Before doing that give your tank a month to chill out, and remember some things are out of our hands.

[Mandinga]

"I checked parameters, everything was fine except the pH was a bit low (7.8), which is weird because I thought it goes up near the end of the light cycle? Anyway since it could have been due to low oxygen I connected an air pump to a powerhead.

pH in the 7.7-7.9 range can kill some fish fast...as can lack of oxygen. "

 

 

Test that water more frequently for your pH...do it 2-3 times per week to get some sense of whats happening. A good pH meter will save you hours of work.

 

Need more info about your tank...i assume no skimmer? if you have a skimmer and a sump, i doubt there would be an 0xyg3n level issue. Likely a big pH swing and shock and bam and dead or dying.

 

That being said, I'd categorize flames like this:

Hard for beginners(solely based on water conditions)

Easy for advanced(again, based on H20 condition, stability)

 

[andy]

Same fish, died from similar symptoms... were they both bought from the same store?

[jgf86123]

Velvet an Brooky both cause fins to do that, my clowns got brookynella a while back, luckily I noticed it right away, freaked out an asked a ton of questions on here, and now, well, I've got some mighty happy clowns, perfectly healthy too.

[impur]

I agree with Mick, its probably in the water column. You should QT every new addition to your tank every time. This will help ensure no pests or diseases get into your display.

 

I would remove your clowns and treat them. Keep them in QT for at least 4 weeks and do this with all new fish.

 

Sorry to hear about the losses. Its tough to watch a fish go downhill and not know how to help it.

[icel]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Unfortunately I don't like any of the other types of dwarf angels so I think I am done with them. (I like the big angelfish but they are too big for my tank) I should probably try a hardier fish next time, like a Marine Betta. I really like them and I hear they are extremely hardy? Either way I'm not going to add anything for a few months.

 

About the pH swings, yeah it could have been due to low oxygen levels. My skimmer stopped working two months ago and I have a better one on the way. (Should be here by tomorrow/day after) Hopefully that will help fix that problem and make my water cleaner.

 

I have been observing my other fish everyday since the 2nd angel passed and they have shown no symptoms of... well, anything. They are acting exactly the same as always (eating a LOT) and look the same. I really doubt it was a disease, or at least my other fish were hardy enough to resist it.

 

Same fish' date=' died from similar symptoms... were they both bought from the same store?[/quote']

 

Yes, they were bought from the same store. I don't want to say which one because people might get the wrong idea, and their deaths were most likely my own fault anyway. :(

[jgf86123]

I can almost guarantee, with the symptoms you posted, that it was a disease. The bad thing is, even if your other fish are hardier an more able to resist it, it will still be in the water column. Seriously, a QT with all of the fish in it will do wonders, plus, by QT'ing your other fish, you will give the organism in the water column a chance to completely die off, then, if you introduce other fish, after properly QT'ing them, you will have a much better chance of them making it.

 

I'd give them another try, they are a fairly hardy fish, especially for an angel, just QT your current fish, leave the DT fishless for roughly 2 months, then try again.

[andy]

Yes, they were bought from the same store. I don't want to say which one because people might get the wrong idea, and their deaths were most likely my own fault anyway. :(

 

I don't believe the deaths were your fault. I understand your reluctance to name names, but losing two hardy fish so quickly with the same relatively unusual symptoms is too coincidental for me. I suspect the fish came into the store stressed and picked up the illness somewhere along the way. YMMV.

[MadReefer]

Check the salinity of the water that is in the bag with the fish when you bring it home. Some stores use hypo in their fish only systems but it is hard on the fish when you try to raise them back to full salinity.

That is just a guess with the information provided. Can you give us more details about your water? What is the alk?

Give it a few weeks/months. Make sure there is algae in the tank for the angel to graze on. Then it might be time to try again.