130 gallon tidepool at school

[reef165]

what does IIRC mean?

[tidalsculpin]

It has a double overflow setup. Don't know what IIRC means but the two bulkheads are 1.5 inches. The overflow strainer is black acrylic and is approximately 1.25 inches below the top of the tank. My pump is way underpowered for this tank. (pan-world 100px-x) I think I could run a barracuda or something and the overflows could keep up.

[acrylics]

i was wondering if you could use a thinner acrylic for the bottom and top' date=' that would cut down the price quite a bit.[/quote'] One may be able to use thinner material for the bottom, but not me - I don't use anything thinner than 1/2" for aquaria

Tank weighs about 150lbs so not that bad, there is no top on the tank at all. Using 1" for the vertical panels helps alleviate any condensation (cold water tank) and negates the need for any top.

I think it would have been *very* difficult to cut down on the price

To quote things in the reply, just hit the "Quote" button at the bottom of the post you are quoting

IIRC=If I Recall/Remember Correctly

 

HTH,

James

[reef165]

sorry for the confusion, what i ment was thinner than the 1 inch used on the sides not the 1/2 inch that was used on the bottom, and that was whare the cheaper came in, not using the 1 inch on the bottom since its usually insulated with riggid foam and plywood.

 

I must say sorry to steve to, we havent herd from you since i asked abought the PH,i didnt mean anything by the PH thing, it was just curious and trying to help (if thats possable) ive been following your threads on RC and The Reef Tank. Youve inspired me to sell off my tropical reef and build a coldwater settup.

[acrylics]

Using thinner material for the sides would create for more deflection, which would require a top, so the actual cost would have been similar as their is more work involved.

The primary reasons it was done this way:

The need was there for a coldwater tank (requiring thicker material anyway to reduce condensation)

1" is a great insulator and would cut down on perpetual costs such as chiller run time.

I had the "scrap" 1" material to make the tank and thought it was a good use for the material.

 

Make sense?

James

[tidalsculpin]

As steve said in the rc thread, less than 1 inch acrylic sweats. I have seen that some folks are using double paned glass setups on that thread. They are reporting good things. That seems to be an economic way to go if you are handy with glass and making window frames.

[reef165]

i realize the sides need to be the 1 inch do to sweating, i was only refering to the thinner bottom than the sides because its insulated with the rigged foam and plywood so it wouldnt sweat with the 1/2 inch acrylic and if you went with a taller tank than 12 inches you would also need a top whitch could also be thinner than the sides because it dosnt even touch the water so sweating wouldnt be as big of a factor.

again sorry if i made it confising

[tidalsculpin]

The 1/2 inch bottom is working great. I have 1 inch pinkboard and 3/4 inch planking below the tank. It is cold (53F) and absolutely no sweating occurs in the tank. I partly insulated the sump, but I am not getting sweating there either. Only place where condensation has built up is on the vinyl chiller tubing. I am going to get some of those pipe insulators for that when I have a chance.

[reef165]

i was just going through the thread and noticed your sump being only 1/2 inch acrylic am i right and if so whats the room temp and is it sweating? did you end up using the feather rock in the sump?

also hows the whole project coming?

[tidalsculpin]

Yeah, there is no sweating. I put rigid insulation around the sump. There is sweating on the chiller pipes. Don't have insulation around those yet. Room temp is around 69-71 deg. F. No feather rock, just bioballs. The project has slowed down. I have been letting the tank establish itelf. I feed live phytoplanton every other day and sinking pellets. I lost two hermits. I lost the shore crab Thursday. Branecles are feeding. Whelks are clumping together in one spot.

Austin did not deliver on the Seattle trip. He was a bit too busy for diving.

Saturday the 24th I'm collecting at the Cape Arago Reserve. Should be lots more to see next week. Wanna help me collect?

[JManrow]

Your nitrification cycle may have begun to reach toxic levels for your hermits and shore crab. If this is the case, it may not be a good time to add any new marine life to the tank.

What are your current readings now? Since you are using bioballs only, do you plan on dealing with nitrates with water changes only? Are you looking into some means of denitrification? Here are a couple of links that may be useful:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/denitrification_erfaqs.htm

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm

 

More info on the ASD system (autotrophic sulfur denitrification)

http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquariumfish/detail.aspx?aid=17592&cid=3793&search=

[tidalsculpin]

John, I have not taken a reading in five days. My nitrates were 0.10 last Monday.

 

The sculpin is active and doing well. Cockle hearts are actively feeding too.

 

The hermits were not getting enough food. I suspect they ate each other. There was some pretty serious aggresion. I started to feed dainichi sinking pellets and they have been behaving better. Also, the mussel had quite a bit of macroalgae on it. This has been fortunate for all the animals since I see them foraging there often.

I do have some feather rock in the lab. Some pieces are quite large. Do you recommend just dumping them in the sump or should I break them up. Some are as large as 11 inches accross. I know there are different kinds of denitrification i.e. aerobic, anerobic. In theory the large pieces would provide both. Correct?

 

Also, I was planning on doing a 30 gallon change tomorrow.

[JManrow]

As long as they fit in the sump, don't bother breaking them up. The denitrification process is done by anerobic bacteria, the nitrification by aerobic.

Yes, the exterior surface of the feather rock would eventually colonize with aerobic bacteria, and the low oxygen core with aerobic as in base rock. I have used it in freshwater aquariums with good results. It is composed of an inert volcanic glass, and will not affect pH.

Just how porous and what degree of denitrification is accomplished with local liverock is unclear to me at this time. It appears to be very dense granite and similar rock.

As I mentioned to you in a PM, we have the Oregon Coast Aquarium and Hatfield Marine Science Center as valuable local resources.

The Aquarists at both facilities have been a great help over the past years and I'm sure will help with any questions we may have if asked.

[tidalsculpin]

So here is the link to a video of my tank after acclimation process. Took about two hours to get things in the tank. Some anemones have not opened up. Have two small fish from the trip. Both are sculpins like my name!!! One is orange the other is salt an pepper.

The list: 5 chitons one is over 10 inches long

10 snails

5 amphipods

3 crabs

5 hermits

lots of algae types.

Coralline rock.

5 purple urchins

4 anemones

great memories

 

My trip started at 8:00 am in Eugene. I was back home from my classroom at 8:00 PM.

 

http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/tidalsculpin/?action=view&current=tidepoollow-res.flv

[reef165]

to cool!! looks like it was fun to get all your gear in and out of.

[reef165]

any new happenings? did you ever add any feather rock and whats the results if you did? do you think it would be wise to use a couple LBS. of base rock when cycling the tank? whare do you get the amonia and whats the name on the bottle?

Im getting close to starting my tank and am gona need a play by play, should i start a thread when i start the tank?

[impur]

Of course you should start a thread when you start the tank! DOH!

 

I checked out Joel's tidepool tank and it is awesome! The anenomes are really cool, it takes you to the coast!

[fish.freak]

sweet tank any new pics?

 

~Scottie~

[biomekanic]

Tidal: have you considered lighting the sump and using it as a refugium? I'm sure the OCA/HMSC could help you with getting some seawoods to put in there.

 

The tour group I was with had the filtration manager for the OCA as one of the guides. I've mentioned this in another thread, but he talked about how the intakes screen out larger animals but plenty of larvae get into the system and settle into the mud settling area. They collect from their and get a lot of animals out of it. I'm sure if you asked, the next time they clean it out they'd be willing to share, plus if you wanted to do a mud/seagrass system to go along with the tidepool, you could take a bucket or two home.

 

Also... what kind of bribe would I need to get a look at this in person?

[tidalsculpin]

Come out and check it out any time. PM me!!

 

Steve Weast steered me clear of doing a refugium. I am still considering it. Right now I am trying to build up live rock in the sump. I have about 30 lbs now and am shooting for 40. I have been meticoulously curing lr in a rubbermaid and adding it to the sump after temp acclimation. Hoping this helps with buffering and nitrates of course.

 

Starfish have been brutal on my livestock. All fish made it. All anemones are happy too. My northern rose anemone is a bit shy but opens up nicely during feedings. Many bivalves have succumbed to the starfish. Thee stars now live with the liverock in the sump until I can get then back to Arago.

 

Thanks for your interest!

[steveweast]

Here are a few cold water thoughts that I have....

 

 

Having a refugium....

 

A refugium is great....warm or cold....if your goal is to create a place away from predation for small critters. If your goal is to create meaningful nutrient export through a refugium....you're deluding yourself. Cold water tanks (if significantly stocked) require enormous amounts of food. Just tonight, I fed my cold water tank's inhabitants. Between anemones, stars, fish, crabs, etc....there is about a baseball size of food that goes in.....and the two tanks are only a total of about 180gals. No refugium (unless it was enormous) could make a dent in that kind of nutrient load. If, OTOH, your tank had only a few tidepool critters.....well....then maybe.

 

I used to grow kelp in my small tank. It grew quite well....but....in no way could it keep up with the nutrient build up. The algae growth and associated maintenance became a nightmare.....so....I took out the kelp and turned the lights down. It's so much better now. I put all my large fish eating anemones in that small tank and all my fish into the larger tank....along with the small strawberry anemones. I now keep the light low over both tanks....and as a result, everything is right with the world again....maintenance is now negligible. I now handle nutrient build up through water changes.

 

As for liverock....

 

If you're using native rock, then you will get no dentrification value. If you're using warm water porous rock, then you might get some dentrification after a long time. These cold water tanks are NOT warm water tanks....the bacterial processes run much slower. I placed a sulfer dentritator on my cold system to help lengthen water change intervals. Even with the dentrator being rated for a 500 gal+ system, it cannot keep up with my tanks' needs......nitrate still builds over time (although it is slower now). The denitrification process is just slowed significantly in 55 F water.....it does happen....it is just slower.....as is evident in how slow the maximum drip rate can be on my denitrator. Several denitrator manufactures state in their instructions that they cannot be used with a temp lower than 65 F.....which is not the case....but, their efficiency is significantly reduced as the temp goes down.

 

Livestock....

 

As with any tank, you have to decide as to what to keep.....you can't have everything. I too, have a number of predatory stars. These stars are, perhaps, some of the most beautiful and interesting stars out there. To me....they are far more interesting than keeping their prey....namely...bi-valves. So, it's a personal choice as to what one wants to keep. I decided to keep the interesting stars instead of the less interesting scallops, oysters, snails, etc. I just occassionally go to the Japanese fish market and get a pound of live razor clams. It takes about a month for the stars to get to them all....but....it sure is interesting watching them hunt and eat.

 

 

Oregon Coast Aquarium....

 

Be careful when trying to replicate what they are doing over there. They are an open system with all the benefits that come with an open system. We run closed systems....which significantly reduces what we can keep and what we can accomplish.

[biomekanic]

Refugium: interesting.

 

If I ever go cold water, I'd be interested in a seaweed tank.

 

Would inert lava rocks (like the kind used for bbq's) make worthwhile LR for a sump?

 

Any thoughts on a large RSDB, more of a DSB in a tub and not a bucket.

 

OCA, good point.

[steveweast]

Refugium: interesting.

 

If I ever go cold water, I'd be interested in a seaweed tank.

 

Would inert lava rocks (like the kind used for bbq's) make worthwhile LR for a sump?

 

Any thoughts on a large RSDB, more of a DSB in a tub and not a bucket.

 

OCA, good point.

 

 

 

Think of running a local cold water tank as if you were running a heavily stocked warm water fish only system. Since nothing is photosynthetic, the food requirements and associated wastes are huge compared with what you're used to in a warm water reef. No amount of natural dentrification will be able to keep up....it will help....just not fully compensate like in our warm water reefs. A DSB...remote or not....will help....but, you're still going to have to rely upon dilution (water changes) for nutrient build up control. Your best equipment choice is an oversized skimmer. So, between the critters needing more food imports....and the slower bacterial processes.....cold tanks cannot be run like their warm water bretheren.

 

In the past, when I visited the OCA, I used to think...."man, they really have an algae problem". It wasn't until I started my own cold tank that I could relate. Even when I dive in the Puget Sound, the first twenty feet are always algae choked.....but, below that, it's algae free. I chose to replicate the lower depths by lowering my lights.....and thus making my algae problems a thing of the past. All the critters that I have come from deeper than 50 ft anyway.

[tidalsculpin]

Well, when I say that I am still considering a refugium, it is more a non connected refugium. One problem I have been trying to figure out is how to grow my own kelp for herbivore consumption. I have been thinking of trying to grow sea lettuce or some kelp. If I make a green mess it will be more like a propagation tank. Grow/ harvest, etc. Much of my harvested kelp has been eaten now. I will begin to place nori in the tank on a weekly basis. I feed Mondays and Thursdays. Monday I feed heavily and target anemones. The hermits and sculpins also benefit. Thursday I feed a bit of herbivore flake and a few sinking cyclopese pellets.

 

The live rock experiment is exactly that. I hope it helps with cutting down on water changes but am not counting on it. It can't hurt. I know the metabolism is slower on these bacteria but increased surface area should help a little. The rock is base rock and volcanic feather rock I picked up at the local garden supply company. Brian Fodness the chief aquarist said that skimmers are the best thing I can do for the tank(next to large water changes). He did not encourage me to go the live rock route but did not say it would hurt either.

 

My real nitrate control has been water changes too. Needless to say, I use a lot of salt on this project.