AquasereneDiver Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Joel et al., First off, yes, I will NOT be collecting from a marine garden or sanctuary zone. My collection sites (for now) will be the North Jetty in Florence, OR (an underwater park, but not an off-limits zone) and the Yaquina Bay Fingers in Newport, OR. Second, I have my gear assembled and we will be making our dives tomorrow. I also have requisite life-support gear for maintaining the critters until Friday morning. (Powerheads, Air pumps/stones...access to all the cold fresh saltwater I can take home from the store.. but I don't foresee the need for it) I'm sure I have too much collection gear assembled, we'll see what we use and what we can forget about after this experience. I have nets, mesh "goody bags" (standard diver collection gear for when we're crabbing out on the coast), disposable plastic containers, buckets, coolers, etc, etc ad nauseum. LOL And one last thing. Water parameters from the North Jetty in Florence: Salinity: 32ppt (as SG will vary with temp, I used the refractometer to measure it) pH: 7.8 Ca: 360ppm ALK: 7 degrees dKh or 2.5 mEQ/L (and just for fun...I tested Nitrates of the "dirty water"...0ppm...looks like nature gets it right after all, eh? ) Judging from these measurements, I would say that you probably aren't going to need to supplement Ca levels with Kalk or really have to worry about alkalinity if you keep up with a good water change regimen. Wish us luck! Hermits and snails for sure tomorrow (although snail ID is going to be fun...there are an awful lot of carnivourous species out on our coasts...), along with a small sculpin if things go well. And we can also probably pull out a Purple Shore Crab or two. And Nuttall's (Heart) cockles too...although I do want to check their diet..if they're phytoplankton feeders or equal opportunity phyto/zoo feeders, a bit of supplementation with DT's ought to do the trick. Basically we're going to come back with what we can find (bearing in mind the age of the tank and resultant bioload stress...in short...not too many fish! ). Wish us luck and see you on Friday morning!! (I'll call with a catch report tomorrow night...) Cheers, Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbrownies Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Post pics asap, I'm really excited to see what you get! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 i didnt want it to sound like i was questioning the legality of his collecting, im curious because i would like to begin collecting off the OR/WASH. coast but for one having troudle understanding wether i need a licence or not, after looking through the link JManro offered it seems i need an angler, and a shellfish licence for OR and the same in WASH if i want to collect there to,is that correct? allso, theres a list of whare i cant collect,sorta, whare can i collect in oregon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 I went a different route personally. I got a scientific collectors permit. I think that people can go and collect inverts with a shellfish permit in Oregon. Can't remember the limits. Washington law is unknown to me, but I have heard it is much more stringent, especially in the Puget Sound. That IS where the diversity is too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 Here are picks of the tank with rock placement and final chiller placement. The chiller is running on a simple closed loop. Cycling has been better the last day or so. It cycles on very 15 min and only runs for about a min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquasereneDiver Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Hi, this is Karin posting under Austin's username. (I am his live-in dive buddy/instructor/additional hand at catching neat stuff, you know...) For the questions regarding collection, here is some info specifically the Oregon coast. Law states that collection of snails, shore crabs, seastars and any other non-listed species (including hermit crabs,) must be limited to 10 total per day. Collection of shellfish, including heart cockles, needs a license ($6.50 for a year pass for an Oregon resident,) and is limited to 12. Crab must be male, 5 3/4 inches and you need to measure them before coming out of the water. I couldn't find anything specific about marine sculpin, my assumption here, (though I plan on calling about it tomorrow,) is that it falls under the "other" category, or simply isn't an issue for game and wildlife to worry about. Oregon does not have any coastline that is specifically off-limits for collection... it seems our preservation lies further off the coast. Washington is different, and has many more places from which you simply cannot collect (being marine reserves or sanctuaries). If you plan on taking any fish, you need to make sure that you are following the angler's license rules as well as size requirements, which are specific to the species. Be careful also about how you transport the creatures. You can't have "mutilated" an animal before putting it in a car- which means crabs must stay whole and measurable, while with fish scales must stay on as well in order to determine type and size. Curiously, you cannot dispose of unwanted parts at the site... (what? when a creature dies in the ocean it puts itself in a garbage can?)... but I guess I can understand this simply because of the amount of waste a fisherperson may actually produce. Anyway- let me let Austin back on... he has pictures to share of our trip today... (which was actually quite eventful, being 3 foot visibility with a light and a bit of a current sweeping through...) Thanks for letting me be a part of this- I look forward to meeting you, Joel! -Karin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquasereneDiver Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Okay...the pictures! lol First...the total haul: 1 Buffalo Sculpin Several hermit crabs (as yet undetermined species) Several snails (as yet undetermined species) 3 Heart (Nuttall's) Cockles 1 Blue Mussel 1 Acorn Barnacle 1 Purple Shore Crab Then the pictures...the first couple are of me in dive gear (thanks to Karin!). I know..boring and all..but Reef165 should know what he's getting himself into before he gets certed... (clap) The rest are of the livestock...a couple of the lil Sculpin (which was the "consolation" prize due to my ineptitude (or the lack of a properly sized net!! lol) to catch several little gunnells hiding under a large boulder...after spending four or five minutes trying to manipulate a dive light, large net, and several uncooperative tiny fish while lying pressed into the mud bottom, I gave up and turned around to find that little guy staring back at me with his big beautiful eyes... (laugh) ). According to my dive computer, he was caught at about 39' in a currently brisk 48 degree ocean. The same with the various snails and hermits. The mussel/barnacle was harvested (pick of said mollusc in next post...hit my five pic limit for this one) in about 20' of water...same temp (brrrr). The shore crab was all Karin...right near our exit point..in about 4' of water (she beat me to one...I had one cornered and was tossing detritus everywhere trying to dig it out, but it eluded me...along with another, larger sculpin of indeterminate species...ahh..the one that got away, eh? ) Everybody looks comfy for now...they're being hand-delivered to Joel at around 9:45 Friday morning. Any questions anyone has...please let us know! Thanks again for letting me help on this...I love it. Gives us yet another excuse to get in the water...and next week we're off to Newport for another collecting trip!! (rock2) Cheers, Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquasereneDiver Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Here's the pic of the mussel/barnacle...bad I know..but it's dark out!! Cheers, Austin Quick update: While typing this post, Karin suddenly remembered she also was able to grab a pair of limpets and several other hermits...which were quietly whiling away the time in her BCD pocket. (whistle) DOH! . LOL They're still alive...(god bless intertidal species) some 5+ hours after getting out of the water. (also god bless the fact that Karin doesn't take care of her dive gear...no freshwater rinse for them either...) So they've been added to the holding facility (read: cooler), where I'll keep an eye on them to make sure they don't expire due to their extended stay out of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbrownies Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 LOL, oh look what I've got in my pocket... oh wait its ALIVE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 Wow, If the muscle dies I WILL have an ammonia spike. He's huge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Great pics and info! Welcome to the site as well!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveweast Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I'm a little confused since I dive fairly frequently.....was there anything with color ? Where's the christmas anemones, corynactus, red brooding anemones, assorted colored stars, kelp crabs, grunt sculpins, baby king crabs, nudibranchs, cup corals, coralline encrusted rocks, etc.....or was this first trip's purpose to collect a few starter clean up critters ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 Well, it was Florence jetty, not exactly a hotbed of diversity. The Newport dive should bring some more colorful stuff. I want to see how hermits and some snails do first. The goal was hardy animals and things moving in the tank while I was teaching the topic. Austin helped me accomplish that. With Spring coming and algae growing season coming on I am sure more will appear at the jetty and along the coast. Coralline encrusted rocks is a goal to strive for once I feel the tank is stabilized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Oregon does not have any coastline that is specifically off-limits for collection... it seems our preservation lies further off the coast. -Karin Actually Oregon does, but I am only aware of Cape Arago tidepool zone known as a no collect zone, I think this is simply because of the diversity there. I went there with a Ranger as a guide and she wrote a ticket for someone taking specimens and noted it was one of the only no collect zones, after we left he started collection again so she gave him a ticket. I have posted instructions on how to get to tidepool here before, its not easy to get to and most people don't know it exists. Very nice place to collect from if you can get a permit, I know Joels permit covered that collect zone, I offered to help, he has yet to go there that I am aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 Yeah, yeah I know. You can come too Nyles. I just haven't set a date yet. I have to tell the biologist when I am collecting. My life these days has been work, tank plumbing, the whole family having a cold, and a newborn. It's a miracle that I have animals coming tomorrow and that the tank is ready for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyles Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 How about I drop three of my kids off at your place and I will fix your tank up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 (laugh) Nice try. Point taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquasereneDiver Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Where's all the cool stuff? We don't have it in Oregon.... The only "local" kelp forests are down in Port Orford and they require either a charter or the proper alignment of stars to reach them from shore without killing yourself. Newport has some kelp beds, so hopefully we'll be able to collect some better specimens there. We're also going to check the Washington collection laws to see if we can collect when we're up there in the beginning of March. The Puget Sound has far more diversity than the Oregon coast. The last dives we made up there we saw several species of rockfish, more varied species of sculpin, several shrimp species, kelp crab/Puget Sound King crab, anemones (several, including Giant Plumose (Metridium sp.)), several kelp species, chimaera, etc., etc. (too many things to note..."a lot" would be appropriate..including litte red octopus). However, I also don't know if Joel wants to mix species or make it an "Oregon only" tank. If so, we can also attempt to collect from the Depoe Bay tidepools (purple urchins there a lot, plus more sea stars). There is a lot still up in the air...but for now, we do have some specimens for the tank. (And Buffalo Sculpin can certainly be colorful...I've seen adults in the Jetty that have red/pink speckles on their giant heads...) Cheers, Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveweast Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 There should be no difference between Wa and Or....I guess the Oregon spots are more of a boat dive thing though. I've always wondered if there was a closer spot than Puget Sound to go collecting.....that's why I was watching and waiting for your posts. I go to Wa to collect. Some really nice collection spots from a shore dive are Seiku, Deception Pass, Burrows, and Skyline.....and sometimes at Jorstead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 I'm definitely open to making it a Pacific Northwest tank. Anemones are definitely an interest for the tank. I am starting to wonder about how much more substrate I need to add to the tank. 60 lbs of tidal grey seachem is clearly not enough. Some anemones or cockles will need a deeper substrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Steve, are all the purple things on the rocks anemones? If yes, did you get them in Wash? How do you transport from Puget Sound? a cooler with a powerhead? Does anyone know the collection laws for B.C.? from what i can gather theyve got allot of nice things and aparently your best bet for the baby Puget Sound King Crab Austin, The suit looks good,cant weight to get into one and join in the fun. How far out are the Kelp beds and how deep? I may have access to a boat, (23 foot thunderjet, my cousin goes to bouy 10 fishing all the time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveweast Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Steve, are all the purple things on the rocks anemones? If yes, did you get them in Wash? How do you transport from Puget Sound? a cooler with a powerhead? Does anyone know the collection laws for B.C.? from what i can gather theyve got allot of nice things and aparently your best bet for the baby Puget Sound King Crab Austin, The suit looks good,cant weight to get into one and join in the fun. How far out are the Kelp beds and how deep? I may have access to a boat, (23 foot thunderjet, my cousin goes to bouy 10 fishing all the time) Yes....they are anemones. I use lift bags and two very large coolers....no powerheads. I would imagine you'd have tough time at the border crossing with coolers filled with livestock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquasereneDiver Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Steve, You'd be surprised at the differences in the undersea topography between WA and OR. The OR coast is one very large sandflat running to a reef line about 3/4 of a mile offshore pretty much everywhere. (The notable exception is far southern OR, in places like Port Orford...and if you can hook up a boat dive to about 1/4 mile offshore at Orford, reef165...count Karin and I IN!! ) There are also no really great upwellings like you find in WA (in the San Juans especially...great deepwater currents dragging up lots of nutrients). This gives us average visibility in the exceptionally poor range (at the Jetty yesterday, the vis was in the neighbourhood of 2'...the best I've ever seen visibility there was 10'). However...all that being said...we are headed for West Seattle in two weeks and Karin and I are more than willing to collect. Are the collection laws in WA similar to those in OR, Steve? (I did note there are a lot more protected zones from the WA DFW website, but none where we'd be diving...with the exception of Edmonds UP.) And Steve...what coolers are you using that sink? lol I was thinking about dropping the coolers and using lift bags to bring them back up...but none of our coolers are negative enough to drop... As far as the substrate issue goes...the cockles only need a few inches..they bury themselves fairly shallow..only have short syphons. Now if you were going to try any of the larger gapers or geoducks..lol...that's a different story. Oh..and one other addendum for you, Joel. I'm going to have to head in for 8:30 tomorrow, not 9:45...they need me in at 10 at the store instead of 12...blah. (and here I was thinking I was going to get more sleep... ) Cheers, Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveweast Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 The collection laws are somewhat similar to Oregon. You'll need a fishing license, a shellfish license, and a seaweed license. You can get them online for about $ 60 for all three. Their licenses run from March to March. You just have make sure that you're not in a preserve. The coolers are for transport home. We use large mesh bags that we fill and send to the surface. As for vis...it varies greatly from 0 to 75 ft.....I check the scuba boards where folks report vis at various spots before going. For livestock....It varies throughout the sound. Some spots are great for anemones...other spots for stars...other spots for fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidalsculpin Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 This appears to be a fairly complete diving ID page for Washington State: http://www.seaotter.com/index.html The photos are stunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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