Emerald525 Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 I voted no' date=' at least wait for a while, or explaine your issue and ask if anyone wants to trade. Posting it for sale the day after winning it is kinda, I want to say slap in the face.[/quote'] Eddie why is it a slap in the face? If I gave something away as a donation I wouldn't care what people did with it. If something someone won didn't end up being what they needed what is the big deal. Again I know it is hard to read tone in posts. Not being confrontational. I am genuinely curious and trying to understand the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharoleb Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Agreed there are some excellent points made, and I don't think I've read all of them. In my opinion once items are donated you can no longer direct what happens to these things. Whether it's items to various charities, fund raisers, schools or what have you. Personally, I have entered several raffles just for the sake of helping said fund raiser. A donation, just as a gift, is given away and not looking back. I can't give a gift for Christmas to someone and then look over their shoulder to make sure they use the gift in they way I prefer, it just doesn't work that way. Having said that, thank you to all of the generous sponsors who have donated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerv503 Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 I think the winner of any raffle can do whatever they wish with their winning. Vin B.O.M "Blue Ocean Marines Inc" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h2odvl Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 A donation, just as a gift, is given away and not looking back. I can't give a gift for Christmas to someone and then look over their shoulder to make sure they use the gift in they way I prefer, it just doesn't work that way. Having said that, thank you to all of the generous sponsors who have donated. That's why they have gift receipts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Well I give permission for whoever won the 4 frags I donated- Oh yes reefnjunkie donated 4 frags (no love-no nothing-no ****) Back to topic.... Whoever won those feel free to do what you want, and in the 30 seconds I spent "scanning" this thread, I saw someone mention this decision came after the fact-nothing was mentioned prior as a condition for "winning" so no "whinning" do what you want, and yes this will upset someone and they may not donate something but had there been rules/guidlines declared in advance that would be a whole different story. Franks idea is a nice gesture, but that again is easy "after the fact" Frank if you won a 500 gallon envision tank would you put it back and grab a bottle of GFO-LOL Dont be hating, just putting it in "perspective"-I know you would put the tank up where the Master Bed "used to be" (laugh) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 No but I wouldn't sell it.... There would be a 150 up for sale.... lol There are some very good points made.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 No but I wouldn't sell it.... There would be a 150 up for sale.... lol There are some very good points made.... It was off the cuff-I just thought you would not have space for it and would not be able to use it-until I thought you had a bedroom, that is why I typed it would go where the bed "was"-(laugh) I could not think of something else you could not use-Mr."setting up another system"-(clap) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassi Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Let's play this game. A few months ago a friend and forum member gave you a frag as a thank you for some help you gave him/her You hate that coral. You don't need it. It is sellable. Would you sell it the very next day on the forum's classifieds? I know, none of us does know personally Mr. Tom Tunze or James Reeflo or whatever. But it is the same concept. I know a donation is a donation, but the donation you do follow the object you donated somehow and creates a bond between you, the donor and the object itself. I'm not saying that you should keep that (in)famous frag frag forever, but maybe you can find a way to make the donor happy and yourself as well. We can stay here talking about this day and night, since this has been one one the main topics of modern anthropology and sociology. Suggested book: Marcel Mauss, Essai sur le don, 1924. BTW, I voted D lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impur Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Sure you should be able to sell it.....for the price of the raffle ticket. Otherwise you are just looking to make a quick buck IMO. This wasn't a raffle to help you make $$$$. For everyone who "donated" by paying for raffle tickets, why didn't you just donate the money? If you are doing a good deed, why do you need the possibility of financial gains out of it? If you end up not needing it, then donate it back or do another raffle for it. What about all those folks who bought raffle tickets and tried to win those items because the needed or could use them? Greed, it comes down to greed. You won. You can't turn around and make your profit off the same people who also wanted to win that item. Life's tough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald525 Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 Let's play this game. A few months ago a friend and forum member gave you a frag as a thank you for some help you gave him/her You hate that coral. You don't need it. It is sellable. Would you sell it the very next day on the forum's classifieds? I know, none of us does know personally Mr. Tom Tunze or James Reeflo or whatever. But it is the same concept. I know a donation is a donation, but the donation you do follow the object you donated somehow and creates a bond between you, the donor and the object itself. I'm not saying that you should keep that (in)famous frag frag forever, but maybe you can find a way to make the donor happy and yourself as well. We can stay here talking about this day and night, since this has been one one the main topics of modern anthropology and sociology. Suggested book: Marcel Mauss, Essai sur le don, 1924. BTW, I voted D lol Okay Alex the last part of your post is a Grassi Thanks for being devil's advocate by the way...(clap) I think a big difference which Rick already pointed out is that Mr. Tunze isn't my friend. In fact I hate Mr. Tunze !(laugh) Just kidding! Thank you Mr. Tunze for the regulator that started all this contraversy(clap)(laugh). As Rick states Mr. Tunze is a sponsor. Part of the reason to donate is to get your name out there and your product out there. I wouldn't take it personally if someone sold what I donated but being Mr. Tunze I have a big ego and would never think it was because my product was suboptimal it was simply because the person couldn't use it or whatever. And for the record, all you whom which I donated frags freebies or sold frags, feel free to post in a classified near you no offense taken. Noobtosalt already did!(laugh) No offense will be taken. I don't give out tunze donations Frank I will take that 500 gallon envision tank you won by the way. How much you want for it!(laugh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReefSafari Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 What about all those folks who bought raffle tickets and tried to win those items because the needed or could use them? What about them???? It was a raffle man, it was random....and guess what, those people who could use it or want it....I know a guy that has one that would sell one for a good deal.... thats how a raffle works...nobody is "entitled" to the winnings, its random.....he just lucked out and got it...found out he couldn't use it, and offered it up to the same club it came from....at least he offered it up here and not on another forum... For some reason I am failing to comprehend the idea of this guy being a greeding villain....he was lucky...its not his fault his ticket was pulled, if anything I blame the person who drew his ticket...now lets go after the ticket puller...YEAH!!!(enforcer)(wife)(threaten)(laugh) To me the people that are whining are the ones that wished they would have won...LOL...But guess what you didn't... This hobby things change faster than any other hobby I have ever been in, in the short year I have had a Reef tank I have changed light fixtures, sold corals, bought different corals, bought this, sold that, upgraded equipment, bought equipment I was going to use but once I had it chose not use it and sold it for less than I bought it for...but thats how this hobby works, we are all buying and selling things all the time, weither its corals or equipment... When I used to ride motorcycles I always entered those raffles where they raffled off a new Harley Davidson, most of the time it was for some charity event, of course I never won, but would I be mad at the person who did win if he won and turned around and sold the motorcycle? No.....would I be upset if the person that won didn't even ride a motorcycle....NO...bottome line is I didn't win, so I don't care what the person who won it does with it...its thier choice.... Do I feel bad buying corals from members on here only to go on and sell them? NO....have I seen people buy corals at a fantastic price and turn around and either frag them or sell them for more than they bought them for...do I care...NO... Another example...OIB...how many have scored awsome deals on the auction only to go and frag or sell it for more than you won the auction for? Are all people who get awesome deals on corals and frag them, sell them, and make more than they originally paid for the coral greedy?....I personally don't think so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassi Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Okay Alex the last part of your post is a Grassi Thanks for being devil's advocate by the way...(clap) This is the only way I can use all the time spent studying sociology lol As a side note: we are less or more 50/50 on the Bod as well, as a sign that this is not an easy topic. There are good reasons in both sides. As for many other issues, we really need some more rules. I know it is boring... As for pulling a thread, this is our only way to be able to keep every thing on track. Sometimes it is not easy to think in advance about some issues that can be generated by an action. I would like to use this thread to ask to all of you to not seeing the Bod as a "big brother" hiding and using some sort of power against you. All our action are discussed in the bod forum, when possible. When not, we take an immediate resolution and then we discuss it later, together. Before to be elected I had some concerns as well. Then I saw all the work that is behind. Everything is discussed in the bod forum, it is all there. We just need some time to analyze each situation. Problem is that during that time a tons on post are made about the problem and it is even more difficult to do our job (not the case of this thread, which is very polite and useful). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackaninny Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Sure you should be able to sell it.....for the price of the raffle ticket. Otherwise you are just looking to make a quick buck IMO. This wasn't a raffle to help you make $$$$. For everyone who "donated" by paying for raffle tickets, why didn't you just donate the money? If you are doing a good deed, why do you need the possibility of financial gains out of it? If you end up not needing it, then donate it back or do another raffle for it. What about all those folks who bought raffle tickets and tried to win those items because the needed or could use them? Greed, it comes down to greed. You won. You can't turn around and make your profit off the same people who also wanted to win that item. Life's tough. How are you going to prevent selling on another forum or on Ebay? You could turn your entire argument around and ask why are the losers crying about not winning? Your raffle ticket purchases were a donation not a guarantee to carry something home in your greedy paws. Life's tough buy more tickets next time. Now I don't internally feel this way but your logic just doesn't work out in a practical or principled way. Socially maybe but I think the specifics show that a good faith effort to make use of the item was attempted and it just didn't work out. Alex I believe, legally, a person gives up return rights to something once it's donated. I consider your example more of a gift situation not a donation. I do appreciate your example and I have a few "gifts" at home that make a once or twice a year appearance when certain people visit (laugh) Look at it this way someone in our community,who needs the item, is going to get a good and deal on it and the money that changes hands is more thank likely going to get spent in our community also. Most importantly the club raised funds for expenses and projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 I know that I have given many frags to people who I have ether bought from or have come by and bought from me, when this happens and the person isn't expecting anything, I dont expect them to keep it at all, it was just a friendly jesture. In a raffel you are hoping to get something ( weather you admit it or not you are, otherwise you would just make random $ donations to the club ) and when you get something and then sell it, it's kinda saying you dont appriciate it, or you just wanted to win and make a $. As for equipment won, most of the time you know if you can use it or not so if you win something you cant use you can ask for an alternate prize or refuse the one won. This way respect is shown to the sponcer who donated it. Sponcers donations are more than they sell in a day, two or even three sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 I am in no way judging anyone or have hard feelings tward anyone doing said selling, I'm just giving my point of view and how I opperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald525 Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 Sure you should be able to sell it.....for the price of the raffle ticket. Otherwise you are just looking to make a quick buck IMO. This wasn't a raffle to help you make $$$$. For everyone who "donated" by paying for raffle tickets, why didn't you just donate the money? If you are doing a good deed, why do you need the possibility of financial gains out of it? If you end up not needing it, then donate it back or do another raffle for it. What about all those folks who bought raffle tickets and tried to win those items because the needed or could use them? Greed, it comes down to greed. You won. You can't turn around and make your profit off the same people who also wanted to win that item. Life's tough. Well if it was really about the club making money then why were only people present able to buy raffle tickets? I think you would have made more money if it was open to all the people who wanted to be there (me) and could not make it due to other commitments. I know I would have purchased tickets and I'm sure other people would have as well. The only advantage to not opening it up to the rest of the group is it gives the people who actually can show up more of a chance to win the prizes and possibly encourages more people to come to the meeting. When I did the raffle for rylee in the summer I opened it up to the entire group because the object was not for me to get good prizes it was to make the most money for a good cause. I don't see it as greed. How is it greed any more than someone who actually can use the item that was donated? Maybe they cannot afford a 150 gallon tank to use a 2000 GPH pump and want to be able to buy salt or maybe get an ro/di unit. What's wrong with putting your tickets in for the higher priced item. It also benefits other members because they are usually going to get something they need at a lower price. My point is you can't assume that the motivation is out of pure greed any more then you can assume pulling the original threads was "big brother" And there is nothing wrong with people donating for a good cause in the hopes of getting something in return. It makes it more fun and it makes it easier to justify the expense. Times are tough people have limited incomes and this hobby is EXPENSIVE. And I like to gamble.(plotting) I'm happy for the winners!(clap) I wish I had a chance to winDOH! but I'm not going to lose sleep over it and I do feel they have the right to do what they want with their donation without having to be judged or justify the reason they are selling it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
414driver Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Nothing ever changes...I'm a hero to some and a goat to others. Just for the record....to the folks who think I had a "profit" motive....has this hobby ever provided you with a profit? We buy...we grow...we frag...we sell...we trade....ocassionally generating a positive cashflow...which we then plow back into the hobby. Somehow I think the vendors benefit from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 Sure you should be able to sell it.....for the price of the raffle ticket. Otherwise you are just looking to make a quick buck IMO. What your saying here is that we should not buy raffle tickets for items we might not use? Is this the clubs official stance? If so it means fewer tickets will be sold. This wasn't a raffle to help you make $$$$. For everyone who "donated" by paying for raffle tickets, why didn't you just donate the money? No it wasn't. It was for the club to raise money. A purpose which is served by more tickets being purchased regardless of what happens to the items afterwards. I've bought raffle tickets in the past with the full intention of selling the items "if" I won knowing that the odds were against it but that by doing so the money would go to a good cause even if I didn't win. If you are doing a good deed' date=' why do you need the possibility of financial gains out of it?[/quote'] Why does it matter? Do you think most of the sponsors donate these items just to do a good deed? No, they are doing so for the financial gain from doing so. If you end up not needing it' date=' then donate it back or do another raffle for it. What about all those folks who bought raffle tickets and tried to win those items because the needed or could use them? Greed, it comes down to greed.[/quote'] Anyone that purchases a couple of raffle tickets is not doing so from being greedy. If they are greedy they will keep their money in their pocket since the chances are better that they will have something when they leave. You won. You can't turn around and make your profit off the same people who also wanted to win that item. Life's tough. Unless it was stated specifically in advance to the people that purchased the tickets the BOD has no legal or even moral grounds by which to limit what the winner does with those items. (I'm not sure it would even be legal to place such a stipulation) Limiting what they can afterwards though may actually make the BOD legally liable for any damages doing so may cause. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassi Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 I don't see it as greed. How is it greed any more than someone who actually can use the item that was donated? Maybe they cannot afford a 150 gallon tank to use a 2000 GPH pump and want to be able to buy salt or maybe get an ro/di unit. Are you saying that I cannot afford a 150g tank? I'm plenty of salt! (threaten) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald525 Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 Are you saying that I cannot afford a 150g tank? I'm plenty of salt! (threaten) I was not even calling you out Alex!(laugh) I was merely stating if I had a 15 gallon biocube what is wrong with me wanting to put my tickets where the higher priced item was. Same price for the ticket. Way to emerald my post.(laugh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisW Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 All I can say is, thank God the guy tried selling the prize he just won, otherwise, 90% of this clubs members would have no drama to discuss. This club has more discussions on feelings than it does on saltwater reef tanks. Granted, most all of the drama is spear headed by just a few select members but still....it seems like everybody else feeds off it. Pretty funny, entertaining, sad stuff. Dennis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 All I can say is, thank God the guy tried selling the prize he just won, otherwise, 90% of this clubs members would have no drama to discuss. This club has more discussions on feelings than it does on saltwater reef tanks. Granted, most all of the drama is spear headed by just a few select members but still....it seems like everybody else feeds off it. Pretty funny, entertaining, sad stuff. Dennis There is not enough "reefing questions" posted-you gotta keep entertained-Is that why other sies "laugh" at us-? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald525 Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 There is not enough "reefing questions" posted-you gotta keep entertained-Is that why other sies "laugh" at us-? Other sites are laughing WITH us! Get it right Brad!(laugh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moto826 Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 i think he payed for it so he can sell it i only looked to vote in the pool lmfao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald525 Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 All I can say is, thank God the guy tried selling the prize he just won, otherwise, 90% of this clubs members would have no drama to discuss. This club has more discussions on feelings than it does on saltwater reef tanks. Granted, most all of the drama is spear headed by just a few select members but still....it seems like everybody else feeds off it. Pretty funny, entertaining, sad stuff. Dennis Actually Dennis I thought the discussion was pretty enlightening and I think everyone was pretty civil which is hard to do in this forum. When I first saw the thread for the regulator my thought was "cool 414 gets some pocket change and someone gets sweet deal on a regulator". I never saw it as offensive or tacky and found it interesting to see what people's issues were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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