reefnjunkie Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I will be doing a 300 gallon tank this fall (approx time frame) and am aquiring "parts" as I find deals etc. The tank will be 72x36x27. I grabbed a reeflo snapper that I had planned on using as a return that will be going through 2-1" sea swirls. I will have it split but no 90 degree angles, most like spa tubing, and roughly 6to 8 feet of tubing max per sea swirl. I will have 4-MP40's in the tank in addition, or I may go with 2 MP60's and 2MP20 or 40's. Just curious on peeps opinions, I think it would be fine but, I'm still a noob in many regards- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewie Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Should be just about right as 1" SS's have a max flow of around 1000gph. After all the head losses it should put you right around 900gph each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 If I'm reading it correctly the sea swirls have their own pumps? It looks like they are generally run on a closed loop rather than being fed by another pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewie Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 No, he wants to run a reeflo snapper as a return pump to feed 2 1" seaswirls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassi Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Not an expert on big tanks, but I would put more flow from the sump. Maybe the 2 sea swirl + 2 normal returns. Just yesterday I was at Westside and I noticed he has at least 2 sea swirl and 2 returns other than powerheads. I'm not sure if the other 2 returns are a closed loop, but I don't think so. The tank is 300g if I remember well. I pump back about 3000gph in my system which is about 240 gallons. Plus the powerheads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kshack Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 That is about the same dimension of my tank. I use a Dart, but I also run my frag tank and supply skimmer. Returns to the tank are not open all the way (I have it split to 3). I sold my MP40's and use 2 MP60's, turned up to about 80% (?) max flow. Feel free to check out the tank if you like. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 No, he wants to run a reeflo snapper as a return pump to feed 2 1" seaswirls. This is my exact operation-I am missing something on the sea swirls?? Not an expert on big tanks, but I would put more flow from the sump. Maybe the 2 sea swirl + 2 normal returns. Just yesterday I was at Westside and I noticed he has at least 2 sea swirl and 2 returns other than powerheads. I'm not sure if the other 2 returns are a closed loop, but I don't think so. The tank is 300g if I remember well. I pump back about 3000gph in my system which is about 240 gallons. Plus the powerheads. I had figure more flow in the tank would be better vs pushing so much back into the tank via returns. The MP60 are max 7500 GPH each and the MP40 are 3200 each maxed out I would be pushing 22,000 GPH (at their peak) which is over 70x turn with the snapper and calculated head loss/pressure. I suppose I could always add another return pump or maybe a few more Vortechs??? I just was not wanting alot of hardware-I was looking at a reeflo hammerhead but Chewie has me realizing I need to see what the sea swirls handle??? Having a hammerhead would eliminate pumps for reactors and skimmer though I think(scratch)(scratch) Lots of time to plan and obviously I need to do more research Ken I might take you up on that offer-I'll search to find your build thread(s) Thanks for the feedback everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewie Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 MP40 are 3200 each maxed out I would be pushing 22,000 GPH (at their peak) which is over 70x turn with the snapper and calculated head loss/pressure. I think your on the right track Brad. 22,000 should do it. 120, 121 whatever it takes................(laugh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smann Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I have the Super Dart Gold runnng two 3/4" seaswirls, two 1/2" seaswirls, skimmer, carbon reactor with pump to spare. I have the pump amd the 3/4's valved back a bit or I have a white water ride going thru my sump. You can always valve them back, I had a snapper on a 125 and had it wide open with four returns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassi Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 This is my exact operation-I am missing something on the sea swirls?? I had figure more flow in the tank would be better vs pushing so much back into the tank via returns. The MP60 are max 7500 GPH each and the MP40 are 3200 each maxed out I would be pushing 22,000 GPH (at their peak) which is over 70x turn with the snapper and calculated head loss/pressure. I suppose I could always add another return pump or maybe a few more Vortechs??? I just was not wanting alot of hardware-I was looking at a reeflo hammerhead but Chewie has me realizing I need to see what the sea swirls handle??? Having a hammerhead would eliminate pumps for reactors and skimmer though I think(scratch)(scratch) Lots of time to plan and obviously I need to do more research Ken I might take you up on that offer-I'll search to find your build thread(s) Thanks for the feedback everyone As for the flow in the tank, you have a lot. Yes you can run all your equipment with that. More water through the sump is more contact time with the mechanical filter and the refugium, if you are gonna set up one, heaters, chemical filtration or other media. With the configuration you are planning you are gonna move around six time the volume of your water (trough the sump), "like the book says". But if you look some more recent tanks, you will notice how they tend to have a bigger turnover (display/sump). In the order of 10+ times or so. It really depends on your rockscaping too, for instance if you are gonna have less rock in the display for more space for sps and some minimalistic look, you might want more water to go trough the sump where the main part of your filter is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerv503 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 The Reeflo Snapper will be sufficient enough for return. Vin B.O.M "Blue Ocean Marines Inc." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeFit Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 i agree with tigerv503, you will be fine with 2400-3000gph in the sump. Even the flow in your display using mp60's will be a bit overkill, you'll be able to turn that thing into a snowglobe. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassi Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 i agree with tigerv503' date=' you will be fine with 2400-3000gph in the sump. Even the flow in your display using mp60's will be a bit overkill, you'll be able to turn that thing into a snowglobe. LOL.[/quote'] They were talking about 1800gph or so. 2400-3000 seems better to me, that's why I suggested a couple of more rerurns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeFit Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 They were talking about 1800gph or so. 2400-3000 seems better to me' date=' that's why I suggested a couple of more rerurns[/quote'] i run 2400gph through 2 3/4" returns and i don't think its enough pressure. He should be able to get 3000gph through 2 1" seaswirls easy and have room to spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewie Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 1800-2000gph through a sump designed for a 300g tank is plenty. More flow through sump = Less contact time for skimmer/heater, and more evaporation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted December 8, 2010 Author Share Posted December 8, 2010 How about this one-LOL http://www.aquariumguys.com/reeflo-com-pump-9000gph.html?gdftrk=gdfV2226_a_7c1209_a_7c5174_a_7c249232 9000 GPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewie Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 i run 2400gph through 2 3/4" returns and i don't think its enough pressure. He should be able to get 3000gph through 2 1" seaswirls easy and have room to spare. The 1" swirls are only rated @ 1150gph. You can push more through them with a bigger pump but it's not reccomended. you will get premature wear on the motor/linkage and you could also blow an o-ring and fry the motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeFit Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 The 1" swirls are only rated @ 1150gph. You can push more through them with a bigger pump but it's not reccomended. you will get premature wear on the motor/linkage and you could also blow an o-ring and fry the motor. ouch, must be hard on the mechanics because the plumbing can handle it easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewie Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 How about this one-LOL http://www.aquariumguys.com/reeflo-com-pump-9000gph.html?gdftrk=gdfV2226_a_7c1209_a_7c5174_a_7c249232 9000 GPH (laugh) Try an Evinrude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassi Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 1800-2000gph through a sump designed for a 300g tank is plenty. More flow through sump = Less contact time for skimmer/heater, and more evaporation. It really depends on where most of the live rock is gonna be. The principle behind an high flow sump is that you will give to the skimmer more display water to process. As for the contact time, it is a good thing to have more inside the skimmer chamber. As for heating, if the tank is gonna be acrylic the flow rate is not an issue. Acrylic is a good insulant. A 300 gallon glass could loose a lot of heat in my opinion, so I think a faster flow of the water volume trough the heating elements will keep the temperature more stable with less energy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold B Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 Hey, I can let you know how my experience has been recently as i'm going through almost this exact same situation. I was debating on either the snapper or dart, as my pcx 100 wasn't enough and decided on the dart since they flow more and have the option to be valved down without hurting the pump (in fact that reduces power draw also) but anyway IME more of somthing and not needing it is much better than not enough.The other factor was that used, they are almost the same price, maybe $50 difference at the most. I also found out how hot the A O Smith motors (usally found on snappers & some darts) run compared to the baldors. After hooking the dart up I found out I made the right decision. It is virtualy SILENT no bull, and powerful enough if ran with proper size plumbing. As for the particulars of plumbing in sea swirls and all every tanks different, depends on if you will have a chiller, or closed loop that you might want to run through those but I would definatly start looking for a dart now. Now as for the Vortechs I have 2 mp40's on mine and they work fine, but with this size tank those 60's would freakin rock. They are just so expensive, if I could, I would much rather have the 60's, as it seems to be pushin it a little with the 40's in such a big tank fighting against 3/4" seaswirls and 2 return lines. Dont get me wrong they work just fine but i've seen a set of the 60's and they are huge and perfect for tanks our size or bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold B Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 O ya hooking up my seaswirls I found out that you have to watch the amount of flow you put through them cause to much will burn the motor out. They have max volume ratings. Just a reminder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewie Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 It really depends on where most of the live rock is gonna be. The principle behind an high flow sump is that you will give to the skimmer more display water to process. As for the contact time, it is a good thing to have more inside the skimmer chamber. As for heating, if the tank is gonna be acrylic the flow rate is not an issue. Acrylic is a good insulant. A 300 gallon glass could loose a lot of heat in my opinion, so I think a faster flow of the water volume trough the heating elements will keep the temperature more stable with less energy Pretty sure with the dimentions brad posted, he is probably getting a marineland 300DD (glass) Regardless, 1800-2000 GPH through a sump designed for the tank in question is plenty (if not excess) for the skimmer/heater(s) to do their job. In my experience having excess flow through a sump actually decreases skimmer performance. Let alone the noise/evaporation factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeFit Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 1800-2000gph through a sump designed for a 300g tank is plenty. More flow through sump = Less contact time for skimmer/heater, and more evaporation. I agree with the evaporation and heater but skimmer contact time will not be effected. The skimmer still draws in the same amount of water and processes it the same. Increased flow pushes more water through mechanical filtration such as a filter sock. I am running 2400 gph through a 125g and i feel I could use another 500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnjunkie Posted December 8, 2010 Author Share Posted December 8, 2010 Pretty sure with the dimentions brad posted, he is probably getting a marineland 300DD (glass) Nailed it exactely 300DD I have always enjoyed double D's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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