cschwarz Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Ok I have a big problem of excess electricity in my 40b reef tank. I have tried everything I can think of. I have all new pumps, heaters, filters and lights everything in the tank is new. but I still get shock every time I put my hand in my tank. But there is one thing I don’t understand when I hook up my ground probe the shock get more pain full!!! I was told I may have a bad ground in my house. So does anyone have an idea how I can fix or find out what is shocking me? I believe that’s why I am having ick problems with my fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgf86123 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Hire an electrician to come out and check the house dude, that's going to be your best bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cschwarz Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 ya i think i am going to ask my land lord to look into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Are you using a GFCI outlet? If not then a ground probe just guarantees a short has a direct path to ground with no protection. I.E. Unless you have a GFCI your better off not using the probe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cschwarz Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 no i dont have a GFCI outlet. should i get one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgf86123 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 You should always have one with a SW tank, but I'm not even sure that will help, since you're getting shocked without a probe, I'd still call in a professional on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cschwarz Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 ok i will look into getting a GFCI outlet. ok calling somone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 unplug everything. Test the tank to see if you get shocked. Plug in one thing at a time and keep testing in between. Find out what is causing the shock. My bet is a cheep powerhead or maybe the heater. There is a slight possibility that it is a ballast from the lights that is bad and causing high voltage to leak into the tank. A safer way to test is to use a voltage probe. One lead in the ground and one lead in the tank. Then the probe tells you when there is voltage and not your pain... dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 no i dont have a GFCI outlet. should i get one? Yes, definately get one. It will sort of solve your problem since it's probably going to trip whenever the part that is shocking you is in the tank. The fact that your getting shocked even more when the probe is in the tank tells me there probably isn't a problem with the house wiring. Instead it simply confirms what I've said in the past. I.E. That having a probe can be more dangerous than not because it guarantees that there is a ground for the electricity to flow through that may not otherwise exist. FWIW, I have a ground probe in the cabinet here that came with my last tank however I will not use it myself and I haven't offered it up for sale since I can't do so with a good concious. Provided a GFCI is used then it shouldn't hurt anything since a short should trip the GFCI but without it they increase the chance of getting shocked by putting one of the two required wires for power to flow directly into the tank. Start with the GFCI. If it trips (which it probably will) then unplug all of your electrical components and then plug them back in one at a time until it trips and that should tell you which part is bad. If it does not trip then get a voltage probe as Dennis suggested and use it rather than shocking yourself to test it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRENT Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 unplug everything. Test the tank to see if you get shocked. Plug in one thing at a time and keep testing in between. Find out what is causing the shock. My bet is a cheep powerhead or maybe the heater. There is a slight possibility that it is a ballast from the lights that is bad and causing high voltage to leak into the tank. A safer way to test is to use a voltage probe. One lead in the ground and one lead in the tank. Then the probe tells you when there is voltage and not your pain... dsoz +1 Good place to start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilliroo Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Not to hijack the thread, but we have an older house, and most of the outlets are 2-prong. Would it be a major job for an electrician to run a ground wire to the outlets to convert them to 3-prong? Would they have to tear the walls up to thread the wires through? And I assume that we would need to run ground wires to install GFCIs for the tanks? The only place we have those is the kitchen. Embarrassed to say that we haven't really worried about electrical safety since we got the tanks. DOH!(scratch) Thanks! Gillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharoleb Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Gilliroo - I too have an old house. Honestly I know very little about this - but we had an electrician out a few weeks ago since we were having problems. Ours was a ground problem, but the wiring in our house is a hot mess. Apparently, in order to change the wires to the 3, they would have to fish them out, not a cheap job, but my understand is that is how they would remove/replace the wiring, not tearing into the sheetrock. Just a starting place, but something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finch6013 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 A gfci on each recep will take place of not having ground wires (I think). I can look in my code book if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 The GFCI requires a properly wired ground to operate correctly. It would be possible to run an extra ground wire to dedicate to the GFCI outlets for the tank however I'm not sure if it would pass a code inspection or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finch6013 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 I know when we do work on an ungrounded house we either have to install 2 prong plugs or a GFCI on each recep. I am going to look in my code book and see if it says why. I know I learned about this in my apprenticeship but it's been to long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Did a bit of research and finch is correct. A GFCI will still operate as such without the ground since it only looks for a difference between neutral and hot. Note though that the ground still will not exist which is sometimes required for some equipment such as a surge protector. For those that want to use ground probes the ground still will not be there for it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finch6013 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 a gfci doesnt need an equipment ground to work it senses an unbalance between L and N and trips. Current doesnt have to go through the EGC it can go through your body to a concrete floor or any other ground source and trip the gfci. Voltage being lost in the water of the tank should also trip the GFCI. (although I have not tested it nor does our NEC requirements talk about it.) a gfci will give better protection from shock than a 2 wire ungrounded receptacle. NEC article 406.3(D)(3)- (D)(3)(b), (D)(3)© allows ungrounded receptacles to be replaced with GFCI's and a sticker that says no equipment grounding conductor. Also any receptacles on the load side of that GFCI must be labeled GFCI protected. This code was put in place to allow people to have an alternative to rewiring their house to pass inspections and to add protection to ungrounded circuits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilliroo Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 You guys are the best. Thank you! Gillian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 My house does not have this problem (it was rewired by the electrician that owned it 30 years ago). But would properly attaching a bare 14 ga wire to a metal pipe that goes through the ground (water supply is what I am thinking) then run the wire to the receptacle that is ungrounded be enough to wire in a 3-prong GFCI receptacle? Would it meet code? My mom-in-law's house has a mixture of grounded and ungrounded receptacles. There is one place in the house where it would be nice to have a 3-prong plug but there is no ground wire running there right now. I am trying to brain-storm easy solutions to the issue. dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finch6013 Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 I dont know the answer to that off the top of my head. Yes it would make a ground but I am not sure if its legal or safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsoz Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Yes it would make a ground but I am not sure if its legal or safe. Thanks Brandon. I was pretty sure it would ground (with a metal pipe, but not PVC). Legal is a little less of a worry, but safe is my big concern. dsoz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 My house does not have this problem (it was rewired by the electrician that owned it 30 years ago). But would properly attaching a bare 14 ga wire to a metal pipe that goes through the ground (water supply is what I am thinking) then run the wire to the receptacle that is ungrounded be enough to wire in a 3-prong GFCI receptacle? Would it meet code? My mom-in-law's house has a mixture of grounded and ungrounded receptacles. There is one place in the house where it would be nice to have a 3-prong plug but there is no ground wire running there right now. I am trying to brain-storm easy solutions to the issue. dsoz Pretty sure it would be safe provided the pipe goes far enough into the ground. I don't recall exactly how far it's supposed to be off hand. For some reason 3 feet comes to mind. Whether or not it would pass a code inspection or not may be another matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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