Yet another piece of input for the board

[CA2OR]

So I was speaking to Ron and Brent with NCRA and they were telling me that NCRA has a section of their site called "Friends of NCRA" which they use to link to other forums and clubs to

 

a) help people find clubs or forums that are local them

 

b) to assist in building relationships with the other clubs as they are considering having events with all the other clubs involved

 

So I thought it might be a good idea for you guys to take this into consideration. It may lead to more members of our club and also broaden our exposure and possibly open the door for several other opportunities for our club

[RoseCityAquarium]

All this hoopla with naming corals has ruined the hobby in my opinion. Personally I think linking our club with "ncra," is a terrible move.

I vote no!!

Nick

[Rick]

As with all decisions the club should first take into consideration whether it fits the mission of the club.

[CA2OR]

Re: Yet another piece of input for the board

 

All this hoopla with naming corals has ruined the hobby in my opinion. Personally I think linking our club with "ncra," is a terrible move.

I vote no!!

Nick

I totally agree....chalices, no matter what color or pattern should all be the same price as the cheapy no namers, acan's, monti's, favia's, zoa's, acro's.....all of it. Price should be based off of size period. I think ALL corals should be $5 per inch....lol....so who is going to start? We can reverse this names for profit thing if someone just starts it off....we can even take it a step further and drop the "chalice", "duncan" and so on labels and just sell them as LPS, SPS, softies, and polyps

[andy]

Opening a subject for discussion then belittling those that disagree with you is widely considered a dickish move.

 

Oh, and I agree with Nick.

[Emerald525]

Opening a subject for discussion then belittling those that disagree with you is widely considered a dickish move.

 

Oh, and I agree with Nick.

 

LMAO(laugh) I would have loved to have seen the nonedited version Andy.(laugh)

 

I don't think the naming thing is going to go away (too much money involved and too many people willing to pay).It reminds me of the fashion world. A pair of jeans can be 300 bucks just because of a designer label when it's not any better than the cheaper ones. I just like to name my unnamed chalices for fun kinda like I name my fish.

[Rick]

I totally agree....chalices' date=' no matter what color or pattern should all be the same price as the cheapy no namers, acan's, monti's, favia's, zoa's, acro's.....all of it.[/quote']You tell on yourself here. The way you reply shows that you recognize some corals to be more valuable than others when you call some of them cheapy no namers. As far as I know all of the corals have real and official scientific names. Many have a common name as well. The issue though is that many people arbitrarily give the corals nicknames that are not in any way official (a so called NCRA certificate isn't going to make the name any less a nickname either). Should a coral have a higher value just because it has a nickname someone made up? Personally I could care less about a nickname. I make a choice about buying corals based on 2 factors. First is whether I think the coral looks nice. Following this I consider whether the price is reasonable and affordable. For something like zoanthids I consider anything over about $2 a polyp to be unreasonable. (I never buy per polyp but am using this as a comparison to a recent post where someone mentioned $17.50 and $175 which I find to unreasonable)

 

Price should be based off of size period. I think ALL corals should be $5 per inch....lol....

I would like to see them sold the same way they come from the collector. I.E. By weight. If there were a set 200% markup at each point of the distribution channel we would still get the corals for a lot less than $5 per inch. (If my information is accurate the collectors get about a nickel a pound)

 

so who is going to start? We can reverse this names for profit thing if someone just starts it off....

Really? Many of us have started already. I've never bought into it and there are many others that don't either. The only ones that can prevent it are those that do buy into it. Unless they all stop buying into it then the practice will continue.

 

we can even take it a step further and drop the "chalice"' date=' "duncan" and so on labels and just sell them as LPS, SPS, softies, and polyps[/quote']This is likely how they get sold into the distribution chain (if they even divide them up this much). I do believe that the common names should still be used though as they help the end purchaser to decide whether the corals will be a good fit for their tanks and what care they will need. Duncans, candy canes, and acans all need somewhat different care. Even deepwater zoa is acceptable to me as it helps identify a specific subset or corals with certain requirements. On the other hand blue hornet vs. purple hornet vs. whatever nicknamed coral really doesn't help the end user to care for the coral. Instead it is either used as a tool for bragging rights or to make a profit. I personally don't see how this is helpful to the hobby or to the mission of the club.

[CA2OR]

Re: Yet another piece of input for the board

 

my initial post said nothing about the naming of corals....and I do honestly agree that naming is killing the hobby....and I do honestly feel that coral should be sold at a flat rate based off of size....I am not "belittling" anybody....I totally agree

 

in fact....I think I mentioned something about that in my response to Nick's post. So if it was confusing let me clear it up....Nick said that the whole naming this is killing the hobby....I agree

 

My post said NOTHING about the naming thing....I didn't even mention that as one of the pointers....I do understand that NCRA does naming....so does Coralpedia...and others....like....uh...Tyree maybe, ORA, I can go on. But it doesnt stop with coral....tanks should be a dollar a gallon IMO like they ARE in other areas such as Las Vegas....dont believe me? call Tropiqarium and ask.

 

So, I agree with Nick, that does not equal belittle, nor insult and "networking" never hurts....but it is what it is and stuff does have names and names such as ORA or Tyree do equal higher value

 

Yes I am one of those that "buy into it" as Rick pointed out, but it is how people are....people do it all the time....they can buy a saturn or a ferrarri....but if they can afford the ferrarri they are most likely going to buy it....I got a great deal on what I got and I am content....so that to me is what matters.....of course I would have been happier if it were sold by weight as this would have only been like a nickel.

 

But that is how I am...I bought a BMW because I could...sure I could have bought a honda...but why? I bought a droid because I wanted it....sure I could have bought something else....I wear Jordans because I like em....sure I can get ten pairs of shoes for that much at payless....but that wouldnt be me...I buy what I like regardless of price.....if corals take a huge hit on cost then I will be more than happy....but until then.....it is what it is and we are all entitled to our own opinions.

[andy]

Thanks for... clarifying -- I hope you accept my apology, which is offered in the same spirit as your explanation.

[drunkreefer]

All this hoopla with naming corals has ruined the hobby in my opinion. Personally I think linking our club with "ncra," is a terrible move.

I vote no!!

Nick

 

well now nick lets not get ahead of our selfs! the titty twister will remain! its a super LE tyree ultra rare rose city score baby!(laugh)(laugh)(laugh)

[CA2OR]

Re: Yet another piece of input for the board

 

Andy, I do accept your apology regardless if it was sincere or sarcastic, and I sincerely apologize to you if it seemed as though I was shooting at you. All I was trying to say is that I too think the "naming game" has had detremental effects on the hobby. After re-reading my response post I would agree that I could have, should have worded it differently, I have no desire, nor reason to attack Nick, or any other member or sponser here....I guess what frusterated me was that I mentioned nothing about the naming or labeling of corals....that and it seems everything I say lately is being taken out of context. I was only trying to point out an opportunity to gain some additional exposure for our club. The 2 reasons I posted in initial post were seriously all I was trying to bring attention to.

 

Whether or not the club decides to do it is of no consequence to me.

[drunkreefer]

I think half the people on this site are only on here to brag about there coral! This site is more about who has what and who knows who than helping people out with the hobby and talking about reef related topics! Its funny to me that a shop owner was the first one on here to point this out.....hmmmmm kinda "fishy"

[Rick]

Andy, I do accept your apology regardless if it was sincere or sarcastic, and I sincerely apologize to you if it seemed as though I was shooting at you. All I was trying to say is that I too think the "naming game" has had detremental effects on the hobby. After re-reading my response post I would agree that I could have, should have worded it differently, I have no desire, nor reason to attack Nick, or any other member or sponser here....I guess what frusterated me was that I mentioned nothing about the naming or labeling of corals....that and it seems everything I say lately is being taken out of context. I was only trying to point out an opportunity to gain some additional exposure for our club. The 2 reasons I posted in initial post were seriously all I was trying to bring attention to.

 

Whether or not the club decides to do it is of no consequence to me.

 

There are 2 problems here. First is that you did in fact bring up naming corals right from the beginning. You did so simply by suggesting that the club identify with a group that's goal is doing just that. They may call it certificates or whatever but that is what it amounts to. The second problem is that you continue to state that you fundamentally believe it is hurting the hobby yet you still choose to support it. IMO this is even worse than those that are doing the unofficial naming in the first place.

[CA2OR]

Re: Yet another piece of input for the board

 

So I was speaking to Ron and Brent with NCRA and they were telling me that NCRA has a section of their site called "Friends of NCRA" which they use to link to other forums and clubs to

 

a) help people find clubs or forums that are local them

 

b) to assist in building relationships with the other clubs as they are considering having events with all the other clubs involved

 

So I thought it might be a good idea for you guys to take this into consideration. It may lead to more members of our club and also broaden our exposure and possibly open the door for several other opportunities for our club

 

where is naming mentioned here? I am also a member of coralpedia....so that should help your argument....oh....plus I named a coral, some could assume it is for raising the value....I thought it was to pay tribute to who I got them from being that they sold for the same amount that they were bought at. Whats kinda funny is while you were on your hiatus I had mentioned in several threads here, RC, R2R, reef discussion, so cali reefers, vivid aquairiums forums, and others what my thought of the whole naming for profit theory. But hey...I'm a supporter.

 

So with that being said....

I pay my power bill...so with your philosophy I must support fossil fuel and natural resource using instead of wind power or alternative energy.

 

I did not vote for Obama so that MUST make me a Mcain supporter and not a felon who cant vote

 

I bought a SONY TV so that MUST mean I support Japanesse products in not American made

 

I worked for a Danish owned company so that must mean I dont support our American economy

 

I bought corals even though they said they are aquacultered but at some point they were wild caught so that must mean I dont support aquaculturing but I must support taking from the reefs....

 

I dont drive a hybrid or an electric vehical so that must mean I support destroying our environment....

 

You are using a spiral bulb from home depot....so that must mean you dont support our LFS's...

 

Do you want me to go on?

[CCR]

I have a rare monti named blaine. It has this name because I couldn't find it anywhere else. I truly feel because it is soooo unique that I will start the bidding at $100,000,000. per 1/8 inch.

I do have an identical piece that I didn't name "blaine". It was hard to even give it away. Now "blaine" has been bided up to a 5/8" piece. Let me know if you want in.

Won't last long.

Pictures will not be provided but rest assured you are bidding on an original one of a kind.

Three day shipping will be provided free with a $155.00 box fee. Purchaser pays for insurance. Shipping to PO Box only. We will contact you to let you know what month it will go out. The Amish are very busy.

[CA2OR]

Re: Yet another piece of input for the board

 

sounds nice...I might be interested

 

one thing I have heard from shop owners regarding the whole naming thing is it is causing a shift in power from the stores to the customers....as it is the customers that are naming the corals and sometimes providing the tag "LE" by simply holding on to what they have, the whole supply and demand equation, which raises value and gives the customer the more valuable corals....the example I was given was the superman monti.....originally it was a blue based with red polyps that sold for an average of $5 per inch...then it picked up the name "Superman" and prices skyrocketted to $50 an inch and higher....then there is the whole "Tyree" thing....again what I was told that the corals are sent to him with little to no value....if he deems it worthy he slaps his name on em and booyah all of a sudden this coral has a value....all of these corals were purchased from stores for very low prices when you compare them to what they are worth now

 

both pieces of information posted above were provided by 3 sources, 2 of which are well respected stores or online shops and the other was from well.....I guess that part is irrelevant.

 

So in closing, it would be an accurate statement that naming for value is indeed detremental to the hobby as a whole....if it were stores that were naming these things they would make more of a profit, but the hobbiests would quickly protest that the name is what they are paying these outlandish prices. When the fact arrises that all of it was wild caught at some point at little to no cost....it really sheds some light on how things have been effected from all of this...to me really aquacultered should cost more than wild caught only due to the time and effort put into it. But when you take into consideration some of the chalices that are bought for upwards of $300 or more for a single eye....my $175 polyp wasnt that bad of a deal...especially when I didnt pay that much for it.

[grassi]

This is all simple branding and marketing. I work for a global apparel company. Guess what, our white tee shirt may be the same as what you can buy at a large discount chain under a generic name... but with our brand on the label we all pay MUCH more. Why? Because of the name on it... People will pay more for things based on perceived value, and there are people out there who's entire job is creating a higher perceived value to make more profit.

 

What's happened to the hobby in the naming/price craze is really just effective marketing. If that goes against your personal philosophy then don't build into the value by buying into it... I guarantee that red hornet wouldn't cost $180 a polyp if people weren't willing to pay it. The high cost makes it "exclusive" just like limited scheduled releases like Tyree does. It's just good marketing and smart business.

 

If shops are distressed about the blue/red monti being named Superman, they have the option to sell it as a blue/red monti for $10.. but it would be a bad business decision when they can make an extra $30-40 using the name.

 

-Jamie

[new school]

someone somewhere named something and then taxed a dude because the other one desired his own. then that dude decided to sell his for a profit. nothing outta the norm, happens everywhere, every time, every day. i think ima start a second identity so i can cry about one thing and then argue the other. someone wanna buy my new handturkey chalice le. by the way, no ones better than no one else. you may have a nicer camera with le flashomatic or this another dude has more money or can run faster then the next dude, maybe attended a nicer college but blah.....blah....blah..bunch o crying goin on here. thought these forums were to help each other around here?!