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tidalsculpin

Trying to learn about closed loops.

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Ok so close loop is the way to go. Nice pump' date=' pvc, bulkheads, strategic drilling placement. I think I'm confused. Has anyone ever tried running circulation up in the canopy? Seems like you could avoid drilling and cut down on microbubbles.[/quote']

 

i run my returns on both tanks up and over the top...down and across the front left and right sides.........goes along with my no piping visible as the canopy hides the outlets....back siphon is a non issue as well as the water simply falls away from the outlets

 

microbubbles are a non issue anywhere if you plumb stuff right on your cls as well as dont try to move too much flow through a sump not designed to handle it

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Joel...I would like to see a CL put together for 400 bucks or less...the cheapest one can find a good low heat transfer pump for is (dart in this case) is 215.00 and if you want some sort of Wave contraption, that best bet is an OM, a used 4 way that will handle the dart is 200.00, we are all ready above the 400.00, not to mention plumbing...union ball valves will run you 100-200 bucks (depending how you set it up), bulk heads, are about 10 bucks a peice...so that is 40 bucks...plus 20 bucks in PVC, plus all the misc stuff that goes with it...if one goes with loc line, that is roughly another 70 bucks...CL's are not cheap, not to mention the hassle of plumbing it...

 

With the vortech's, you get half a pop can in the tank (not bad at all) 3700gph, that is good...not to mention the battery back up...that is worth its weight in gold with this hobby...Really CL's are no good to me...CL's have their place, but not in all and most tanks...

 

I hate tunze's and seios, simply for the girth that they take up in the tank...if vortechs, were not around I would still be going with a CL...

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I'll jump into the fray here... I went CL primarily to not have power heads and multiple electircal devices inside a box of water. It does not leak. The 2 largest culprits to heat are my lights and the mag7 in sump return pump, the skimmer pump is probably adding to the heat also! I too got a Panworld, got it used on the cheap, works great for my small tank (40G). When I do a larger system I'll do a CL again with an OM device. All my plumbing turns away from the stand and goes into the garage.

 

I'll try to post some pics of my plumbing. The 4 vertical pipes are the CL returns (1 1/4"), the center pipes is the CL drain (1 1/2"), the curved one is my experimental return (loud at high flow rates but silent otherwise) and the returns are the outer most lines that are split in sump via SCWD (too scared to put a 3 way clamped device, under pressure in the house...

 

The second pic is the final fresh water test to show the locline outlets. I've since changed the nozzle arrangement. Over all I'm happy. I just wished I'd plumbed for a 4 way OM off the bat and listened to Joel and started with a larger tank...

post-272-141867734733_thumb.jpg

post-272-141867734736_thumb.jpg

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f vortechs' date=' were not around I would still be going with a CL...[/quote']

 

Got a link for this vortech thingy?

 

I did my CL for less than $400, but it does not have a wave device. Used PanWorld $70 or $100 (I conveniently can't remember). Plumbing wasn't too bad, most expensive part is the $2.30/foot of spa flex. Definitely not $300 worth though. So, if I added a wave device I'd need to add 4 X 1 1/4" true unions and the OM 4 way. That would put it over $400, unless I got the OM used...

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LOL hey Todd, now youre in trouble, I know your screen name GOTCHA!

 

Brandon, I agree, a CL is NOT the best in every situation, but I am giving my side of the story and stating the facts as I know them.

 

There are thousands of ways to make a reef tank successful, most of us simply plead our case based on the knowledge we have come to understand. I am simply standing up for what I feel is a bonifed legitamate way to successfully have a reef tank at a reasonable cost.

 

With that said. a OM is a wonderful device, wonderful enough I am putting one on my personal system. Is it required for a successful CL system? NO! a successful CL does not need to be a plumbing gods work of genious.

 

Case and point. Next time you are in waves, take a look at the CL system on the cube tank near the front door. Simple as this, ONE 1.5" intake BH, DOLPHIN pump (since it was there when I bought the shop, otherwise it would be a Dart) and TWO output 1" bulkheads. The results: amazing.

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So' date=' if I added a wave device I'd need to add 4 X 1 1/4" true unions and the OM 4 way. QUOTE']

 

 

I think most people including myself use the 1.5" in and 1" output, thus 1" true unions. That'll save ya like $4!

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LOL hey Todd, now youre in trouble, I know your screen name GOTCHA!

 

Brandon, I agree, a CL is NOT the best in every situation, but I am giving my side of the story and stating the facts as I know them.

 

There are thousands of ways to make a reef tank successful, most of us simply plead our case based on the knowledge we have come to understand. I am simply standing up for what I feel is a bonifed legitamate way to successfully have a reef tank at a reasonable cost.

 

With that said. a OM is a wonderful device, wonderful enough I am putting one on my personal system. Is it required for a successful CL system? NO! a successful CL does not need to be a plumbing gods work of genious.

 

Case and point. Next time you are in waves, take a look at the CL system on the cube tank near the front door. Simple as this, ONE 1.5" intake BH, DOLPHIN pump (since it was there when I bought the shop, otherwise it would be a Dart) and TWO output 1" bulkheads. The results: amazing.

 

No I understand...Like I said...if I did not go with the Vortechs, then I would go CL. But i guess my idea of doing it "right" is completely different...and that includes an OM, and that is where it gets expensive...so I guess its all relative.

 

I still have a soft spot for CL's...

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I called my vendor for another question about Oceanic' date=' Ill see if he can find out for me. Do you know if your tank is the "contrast collection"?[/quote']

 

 

yes i believe it is....its the one they sell at PETCO for like 250 bux and i got it for 40 when they did their $1 a gallon tank sale on AGA tanks and someone in pricing screwed up! lol

 

If you could find out for me that would be AWESOME! thanks!

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LOL hey Todd, now youre in trouble, I know your screen name GOTCHA!

 

well, I guess I outed myself... I'm the same screen name on RC.

 

So, the vortech thingy is $350ea! How many do you need to create the flow you want? At least 2 right, plus a battery back up for each or can one battery back up two pumps?

 

My CL is looking like a killer deal: $100 used pump, $50 in locline and if I added a 4 way OM for $350, $150 for plumbing (which I think is too high) I'm all in for $650 with multiple outlets vs close to $1K for the vortechs without a controller...

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well, I guess I outed myself... I'm the same screen name on RC.

 

So, the vortech thingy is $350ea! How many do you need to create the flow you want? At least 2 right, plus a battery back up for each or can one battery back up two pumps?

 

My CL is looking like a killer deal: $100 used pump, $50 in locline and if I added a 4 way OM for $350, $150 for plumbing (which I think is too high) I'm all in for $650 with multiple outlets vs close to $1K for the vortechs without a controller...

 

You only 2 vortechs on a tank that is smaller then 180gals... 150, is not to low for plumbing, depending how many union ball valves you use, it could be higher, plus you are use spa flex, so that will be more...

 

But here is the deal...Find me something that will run your pump when the power goes out for 24hours for 150 bucks...Good luck :D ...Plus depending how you have the vortechs set up, you would only need one battery back up in a power outage, that will get you enough water movement for that period of time...and they are coming out with a controller, you will have much better options then an OM...

 

ON tanks that are smaller then 50gals, I think CL are cheaper...but when you get over 75gals and add an OM and a much bigger pump then you have (which you will need, a dart like we are talking, that used is 190.00 shipped)...

 

to each his own...but a bigger CL that is done with an OM, and plumbing that allows you to disconnect all pieces with out water spillage will run you well over 600 bucks, not to mention time...

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I just put together a closed loop for around $600.00 with an oceansmotions 4-way, powered by a barracuda. I have no microbubble issues, I have quite a bit of flow in my 150 gal. tank, haven't had a chance to calculate the power usage yet. I'm glad I went with a closed loop as I don't like all kinds of equipment hanging in the tank.

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Can't wait to see what they come up with for the next decade. I've checked out many books from the library lately and it's amazing to see the progress made in marine aquariums in the past 10 years. One book said to NOT put rock of any sort in the tank, which now seems to be an expensive goal in good natural filtration. I remember seeing something about how far out of reach using skimmers and ozone were too; and good luck keeping anything more than fish alive in the tank with plastic plants and fake coral.

Many of the books made no mention of closed or open loops....just bubbles and undergravel...which wasn't that long ago..so no wonder the jury is out!

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well i did what melev did i also have a 40 and i didnt drill it i did his plans in a way except the scwd and bought a pcx40 gen x one and the pvc and glue and borrowed a pipe cutter it cost me 180 bucks i found it too be quite cheap! and i bought lock line for the out puts for a y and i think that was like 10 so i guess 190 really. if you want pics i can take them it puts out about 1200 into the take and it made my tank 1 degree warmer. it does have a slight hum though but i really dont want to put a dart on this tank lol way too much.

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I will jump in... I've got a SCWD but I use it on my returns.

 

I do not trust the SCWD to sit out of the tank with some vinyl tubing that is merely clipped on. I'm sure people run it that way, but I just see blown hoses, broken clips and 30 gallons of water on the rug at 3AM... (hope for the best but plan for the worst)! Because of that, I would not hook it up to my CL outside the tank. I also didn't want it in the tank. My first CL attemp was a Mag12 driven externally on the CL. It was super loud and I've read the pump will eventually leak... It's really not an external pump.

 

My SCWD is hooked up directly off the return pump right in the sump. I then run 2 returns to the tank. This way, when the SCWD fails, which it will, I'll be in the sump which is in the garage...

 

Personally, the SCWD is a great device as long as you take it for what it is... The OMs on other devices are more expensive for a reason. To do it again, I'd pay more for beefed up device. Remember, these things run 24/7.

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You only 2 vortechs on a tank that is smaller then 180gals... 150, is not to low for plumbing, depending how many union ball valves you use, it could be higher, plus you are use spa flex, so that will be more...

 

But here is the deal...Find me something that will run your pump when the power goes out for 24hours for 150 bucks...Good luck :D ...Plus depending how you have the vortechs set up, you would only need one battery back up in a power outage, that will get you enough water movement for that period of time...and they are coming out with a controller, you will have much better options then an OM...

 

ON tanks that are smaller then 50gals, I think CL are cheaper...but when you get over 75gals and add an OM and a much bigger pump then you have (which you will need, a dart like we are talking, that used is 190.00 shipped)...

 

to each his own...but a bigger CL that is done with an OM, and plumbing that allows you to disconnect all pieces with out water spillage will run you well over 600 bucks, not to mention time...

 

Well, I guess I need to look into alternate power source for when the power does fail... Add that to the list! No way I can get a $150 dvice to run my panworld for a day. I can just reach into the tank and swoosh some water around with my hand a few times an hour!!!(laugh)

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