CA2OR Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 So for the past 3 weeks I have been fighting a battle in my tank and I don't seem to be getting anywhere. It all pretty much happened when I got the canopy for the tank and right around there. I will try to provide as much information as possible here in hopes of getting some direction. So I apologize in advance if I ramble or emphasize on irrelevant facts. According to last water test 1 week ago at Upscales. Salinity 1.022 Temp 78 Nitrites 0 Amonia was very low...not 0...but not of concern either Phosphates 0 PH 8.0 Calcium 500 Alk "it's good" quote from Upscales guy. Nitrates were very high, but I believe I know why and have removed that from the system. I use Tropic Marin and Tropic Marin Pro Reef salts. Nitrate issue, I have used canister filters on my tank since my 36 and hadn't had nitrate issues, I always credited that to removal of the foam pad they have in them to prevent debri collection, when I put the 72 up I used my 304 but forgot to remove the pad. Since I noticed the Nitrate spike I have removed the canister from the system so it is no longer in the equation. Salinity issue, My refracto seems to be off kilter, which is why I took my water to Upscales in the first place. I had taken my water to World of Wet Pets and they said that I had no nitrates and my salt was 1.020 so I added salt and my refracto was reading 1.025. So I took water to Franks one night and he tested it at 1.020 also. I went home and set my refracto to read my water at 1.020 then did a water change with some potently mixed 5 gallons. A day later I tested my water and it read 1.025 I asked Vanz to come over with his refracto and it also read 1.025 so I assumed my water was good salt wise. However today I tested it again and it is reading 1.018.DOH! Will be taking water to Upscales again tomorrow. Anyway since last Monday I have done a 20g, 15g, 10g, water changes to my tank to reduce the nitrates and pick up my salinity to acceptable messures. All of this was instigated by the loss of 90% of my SPS 3 weeks ago. All acro's minus the tricolor, my milli, both birdsnest frags, my sunset monti, and the ORA Blue Chalice. My initial concern was from the loss of the ORA blue. Then I noticed my Duncan's haven't been opening nor was my hammer, I also had lost my torch in all of this. Zoa's seem to be fine Around this time I had made several changes to my system. I was running an SPS 15k DE HQI MH, which I had run for 10 to 12 hours a day for about a year, Calvin brought over a used Pheonix 14k which was ran for 6 hours a day for 2 years. I was\am considering the Pheonix for my bulb replacement coming up in about a week. I also removed my 3/4 inch flow accelerator and Korellia 4 and replaced it with 2 Korellia 3's and I split my return. Also added the canopy and initially found my salinity to be low. I initially thought that the hammer and duncan's were upset due to the increase in flow so I have moved them around a bit. My hammer, after the most recent move, has been very happy, but my duncan's are still showing stress. Then I thought it was my salinity and nitrates, so I have removed the canister, about a week ago, added Purigen and Carbon, and also done the 20g, 15g, and 10g water changes....and I am not seeing any result. Duncan's are still very upset. They aren't dying, I am not loosing heads, but they dang sure aren't opening. I am assuming that my nitrates are still a tad high but should be coming down. According to my last refracto encounter my water is at 1.018. I will be taking water down tomorrow to get tested and am expecting to pick up 20 to 30 gallons of water for another tank change to help resolve this issue. But I am not convinced that this is what is actually what is going on. I have also lost one fish during all of this. What I am doing so far about this: I am changing back to the SPS bulb tomorrow. I have also ordered Refugium mud, started with Purigen, increasing my LRR, removed canister filter, multiple water changes with no end it sight. So here are the questions, As noted I have lost a ton of SPS and a few LPS. But here is what confuses me....I have an acan that is doing great, I also have 2 other monti's that are also doing great. My hammer is doing great, xenia is dead, duncan's are pissed, zoa's are thiving. My toad stool and devils hand are doing fine....what do you think can be going on? What else should I do? Could changing from a SPS 15k ran for 12 hours for 1 year to a Pheonix 14k ran for 6 hours for 2 years do this? Fatality list to date: 1-3inch Milli, was bought as brown out from Impur 1-small sunset monti from Frank 1-ORA Blue Chalice was 3 inches grew to 4 in a month from Davy Jones Locker 1-Huma Huma trigger 1-Blue polyp Birdsnest 1-Green polyp Birdsnest 1-Pink birdsnest What is showing stress: Duncan's....both frags...again Duncan's do NOT appear to be dying, I have no recession of flesh, nor head loss. What is fine or thiving: Zoa's, zoa's, zoa's also devils hand tood stool fuzzy mushrooms sponge pagoda 1 purple tang 3 clownfish 1 pink tail trigger 1 blue throat trigger 1 lawnmower blenny 4 neon gobies 1 melanarus wrasse all snails, crabs, starfish, and the cucumber are fine No sign of stress on cucumber, sand sifting starfish, serpant starfish, snails, hermits, or emeralds. All other fish are fine as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 I have spoken to a few people regarding this and maybe they can chime in with some more input that I am missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finch6013 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Most of the issues I have experienced with sps dying are all calcium and alkalinity related and second pests. Do you dose anything for alk and calcium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegotjs Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Possibly the leathers are releasing there toxins into the water . I have had this problem when i was mixing sps and softies that shed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 oops forgot to add those...calcium was at 500 and they said my alk was good. They are up there now. Not all my SPS is dying or dead though. The 2 monti's, green cap and orange cap, seem to be doing great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefboy Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 All stuff listed are fairly hardy things that can adjust to differing levels as the come from higher nutrient zones so they can adapt better.I do believe the main problem was your salinity or lack there of then you got a domino affect after things started dying which worsened matters. A few Q's are you using a protein skimmer or running carbon?if not I would suggest one or both and when switched lighting have you had any heat issues? this can also be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 No heat issues...temp still at 78, I have had my skimmer off for about a week, everytime I do a water change my skimmer over skims like crazy for 2 days so I usually leave it off during that time, but I have been doing tank changes every 2 days so it has been off. I have added Carbon the same time as the Purigen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finch6013 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Possibly the leathers are releasing there toxins into the water . I have had this problem when i was mixing sps and softies that shed. I had similar problems untill I went sps only. Its a good thought. I tend to agree with reefboy. a domino affect may have happened. I noticed when I lose an sps it seems to be a delayed reaction to what ever may have caused it. So the problem might have been somthing from a few weeks ago that didn't even get noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 I can see that....but not all SPS is gone...what was dying is dead....now it is just the Duncan's....and I mean JUST THE DUNCAN'S.....they are NOT a coral I am prepared to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Are you toping off more now that you have done the plumbing mods and added the hood? My first thought on your salinity is that ya have a small leak somewhare and you just keep toping off unsalted water, second thought is if you are adding more topoff water, and still just running the tap water, the clorine or extra clorine may be to blame. I would forget about the lights being the problem as it sounds like you have been running the lighting for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finch6013 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I know you love your duncans. Just because some sps are still doing great doesn't meen the tank is doing great. Those that are still living are pretty hard to kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 The only thing I can say about that is that these problems started the same time I started with that bulb. So I can't really say whether or not the pheonix has anything to do with this.. regarding the top off, I have been doing alot of water changes since adding the canopy so I can't really say if it has been any more often being topped off than normal. I do not have any wet surfaces outside of the tank though. Finch: I agree. That can very well be the case. I will be updating with new test results tomorrow but I would like some more input here in case there is something I am not seeing, considering, or testing for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finch6013 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I would test for everything possible including your RODI water. I have seen far to many issues come from bad RODI water. Just because you might be buying it from a LFS doesn't mean that its clean either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 could it be metal? or electricy? Why would the hammer be good and not the duncan's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finch6013 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I dont know. Check for metal. Look in your sump and tank to make sure something has not fallen into the tank such as a screw. Is it at all possible that your son put something in the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 No....he can't get there....I have looked and I will look again tomorrow but I am not finding anything in there that shouldn't be. I am totally at a loss here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Anyone else got any idea's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Also note....the Tri Color Acro I have is not showing any signs up stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Hey, wasn't the beaverton area where ya had to boil the water cuz of bacteria a couple weeks ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 I don't know....I heard about something with the water but I was under the impression that it had nothing to do with my area....what could I do if that was the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 This is pretty much how my duncan's have looked the past 2 or 3 weeks These pic's were after MH was off....they do open a bit more than that right now. I will update the pic's tomorrow mid day when MH has been on. Compared to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanz Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 salinity is still off? So you did three water changes since I last came over right? Did you check the salinity of each batch? How long did you let it mix before testing also? I normally circulate water for 24 hours, then add the salt mix and let that circulate for another day, then I test. I try to aim over rather than under so I could just add fresh water instead of salt to make up the difference. Let that circulate for 15 mins or so and test again. So what are your methods of doing water changes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef165 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Well since doing the water changes has the dying stopped? If I remember right, when I was living in beaverton off Heart rd. we were on the Bull run res. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 well I normally let it sit for a bit. The last one I had it spun and sitting for 24hrs. If I must I will be buying saltwater from Upscales for tomorrow's change. I too have been aiming for over rather than under with mixing of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CA2OR Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Well since doing the water changes has the dying stopped? If I remember right' date=' when I was living in beaverton off Heart rd. we were on the Bull run res.[/quote'] Nothing has died since the water changes....but nothing has really turned around either. The hammer turned around along with the devils hand and toad stool. That's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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