Simple effective Nitrate Reactor

[Nyles]

I have been fighting Nitrates for sometime, cleaning like a freak, doing 30% water changes twice weekly, stopped feeding all together, and my nitrates don't go down a drop.

After doing a few months of research and giving up on water changes I decided to try a nitrate reactor, I was looking for a fully autotropic version, the Sulfur method looked most effective after doing all the research. This method uses a 1/3 amount of 99.9% pure sulfur and 2/3 calcium aragonite (I used ARM media) in my EXISTING cal reactor. Keep in mind you don't need a reactor but it makes the method more productive with less media. All I did was dump in the cal media and then the sulfur beads (3.5 mm) and run the system full speed for 2 hours, then set to 1 drip per second. The cal media grows bacteria similarly as a bio ball (for theoretically better effectiveness you can try "Seachem Matrix" this would make the system FULLY AUTOTROPIC) but you would lose calcium addition. As the nitrate free float past the Sulfur it is broken down to nitrogen. Here is the lamens break down:

4NO3 + 3S ->2 N2 + 3 SO4

Here is a documented status of the tank as of a week ago.
December 20th:
Existing rector (knop c) retrofitted to be used as nitrate reactor, this consisted of removing the co2, and adding calcium aragonite bed after the effluent to drip into as the effluent can be acidic, the cal bed reduces the effect and buffers the system back up, just as you would with a calcium reactor. Nitrate reactor flushed for 2 hours, then set to a drip of 1 drip per second. I added no bacteria feeding even though I have prodibio for food if I wanted.

My existing Nitrates where 25ppm

December 21st:
checked effluent- nitrate still 25ppm

December 22nd:
checked effluent- nitrates in effluent where 100ppm or more (unreadable and off the charts) This shows the media is getting colonized with bacteria (a good thing) At this point I left the system as it is and touched nothing.

December 23rd:
Checked effluent- Effleunt levels at 0ppm nitrates so I cranked it to 2 drips per second to process more nitrates.

December 24th - Effluent 0ppm so cranked it to about 3 drips per second and this is about as fast as I am comfortable with as I have a pretty small reactor and I used MUCH less media then the professional reactors use.

December 25th (xmas baby!)- I checked effluent 0ppm
still.
Since I was in a festive mood I checked the tank nitrates and to my amazement they where less than 10 ppm... less than a week ago they where 25ppm or more

December 26th - 7ppm no3 in tank

In the reactor I used 1 pound of pure sulfur, I ordered 2 pounds just in case but it seems 1 pound is enough. The only flaw I can find is at three drips per second I can only get my ph down to 7.3ph, and at 1 drip per second I get it down to about 7.15ph. (keep in mind this reading is after I buffer the effluent so it could be SLIGHTLY lower in the chamber) I am going to watch the effluent overflow box filled with media (ARM aragonite) and the cal media in the reactor to see if I am getting decent media processing. I'm begging to wonder if I can combo up the co2 with the sulfur to bring it down the little bit I need to get the reactor dissolving media properly. The alternative is adding a separate cal reactor. I need to measure the cal on the output of the effluent I just have not had time yet, as I am still in disbelief that this method works so effectively. This method is used in most the larger aquariums and has been tested in coral systems for over 4 years without water changes with good results.

I will keep you posted on the rest of the readings, for now I am going to stare and my tank and enjoy. Follow ups to come.

[siskiou]

Congratulations on the success!
Where did you get the sulfur?
I've been checking into that lately, and found a simple DIY nitrate reactor made from RO canisters, but have no clue where to get the right media.

[Nyles]

I got the media from Midwest aquatics, there is a carib sea version the marine depot sells but I was not happy with the purity or the size. I have enough left to make another one if you like, please PM me and I can get you some info. Your total cost is $21

[siskiou]

Will contact you in the next few days!
Too busy with Christmas for the time being... :)

[Nyles]

I will also note I seen a few Extremely simple version of this... here is one
http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePage/USArticles/Zmiro/DenitratationSoufre.html

But the recirculating type is much more effective, I used 1/20th the media and am getting the same effects, you could use the method linked there but I would remove the phosphate and recirc the sulfur and cal media... just keep in mind this system works most effectively in an oxygen depleted "zone", hince the use of a calcium reactor I had.

[Michael7979]

Very cool Nyles!!

This is what you were talking about doing when we talked at the Xmas party, right?

Glad it has worked for you and please do keep us updated with progress.

[Nyles]

Yes it is, so far so good, I am going to test the water tonight when I get home. Everything looks great though. I still need to research if I can add the Co2 (to get me back down to 7.8-7.9 ph) without having a reaction that kills the bacteria or reduces its effectiveness, in theory it should not effect the bacteria since the sulfur is creating low levels of oxygen already but I am going to talk with Randy about it when I get some time. Of course the simple thing to do is run the reactor for calcium separate, but I want to experiment just because it will be interesting. I will wait till my no3 hits zero before experimenting, therefore eliminating good data because I will not have nitrates to test no3 removal effectiveness.

[Nyles]

Tested tank water tonight and its down to 7 ppm no3. Looking good, tank looks the same and I have (for the last three day) bumped my feeding to twice daily instead of once daily, so the fish are happy. I am going to catch that dang hawkfish so I can get some dragon faced pipefish but thats another matter all together.

[Nyles]

Well I tore this guy down today and rebuilt everything. It worked fine but I lost the effectivness of the calcium reactor, so I built a stand alone Nitrate reactor and fed it to the calcium reactor and put a controller on the cal reactor. This should be able to do nitrate and calcium. I would have left it but with the clams and all the SPS I tested at a loss of 80ppm calcium in 6 days (450 down to 370). New setup up and running, I made a larger nitrate reactor so I can pull more effluent faster since the cal reactor will need to process water faster.

-In short from start to finish the Nitrate reactor is fed a line by gravity from the sump to the Nitrate reactor
-In the reactor is a pump that circulates the water for best effectiveness of the sulfur. I added all the sulfur I purchased now since I decided to go with a much larger reactor for effluent reasons.
-There is a line ran from the reactor to the calcium reactor (no pump)
The cal reactor PULLS the water from the nitrate reactor as my cal reactor requires no pump (it has negative pressure on the inlet) The ph going in is aprox 7.25 ph
-The cal reactor is holding 6.9 ph (arm media) as I find ARM does great at higher PH and I don't have to drag it down and effect the tank as much.
-The cal reactor is then dripped to a holder that holds the ph probe and controller set to turn of ph at 6.7 and it typically holds at 6.9

Feel free to ask questions, I will post back after I have tested it thoroughly.

[impur]

So hows the new one doing? Any pics on the new build?

[Nyles]

Its a homemade haircut. I made it out of a large ARM media container.... quite funny really. Its going through its cycle right now and stuffed way under the tank behind cal and co2. Its pumping out high nitrates as of last night night due to the fact I had to double the amount of media so its going through the process of building up the bacteria again. I'm hoping it will cycle as fast this time and have "0" nitrates when I get home today, I doubt it though. I will follow up tonight. Its a gravity system so I don't want to move it, if I pull it out and don't shut off siphon I can possibly??? kill off the cycle and have to recycle ?? I don't know. I need to head to Home Depot and get more plumbing supplies but its such a pain to get over there. You will see it this weekend anyhow since your coming to get your corals.

I will note that this guy was built with regular things in the house, just to prove how simple they are... or.... how cheap I am. Anyhow I could make a calcium reactor this same way and I bet you it would work as well as my $300 one.... The main difference is I would probably need a very small pump to get the effluent out or in and gravity feed the other line on a valve as I did this setup, regardless, its super cheap and effective.

[impur]

Yah i'm all for DIY as you know ;) Looking forward to seeing it saturday.

[Nyles]

OK, tested effluent and its at zero, yippie, now I will let it run a few days and then start to get the calcium reactor section dialed in, to cool. FTI the tank nitrates shot right back up to 25ppm.... figures huh? I can't tell if its something in the tank like the sand bed or something like a leaky CLS bulkhead leeching stagnant water from the old CLS system. I don't know but it always makes it up to 25 ppm on the salifert kit if I don't do WC like mad. I can't wait to tear this thing down and start over.

I will probably end up ordering some of that 6" acrylic tubing and make a full nitrate reactor with a union on top, just because I want it to look purdy :D This is a very cool DIY in the fact its so effective with so little work. I wish I could figure out where the bloody nitrates are coming from but this will due till next year when I step up to another tank, thats a whole nother subject though.

I will note that the CO2 usage is very low, this is going to make my CO2 consumption almost nil, the CO2 into the cal reactor is now at 7 and its almost holding its parameters without the co2 all together. You could almost do a no2 reactor and a cal reactor inline with no co2 at all, however you would be limited to the amount you can turn it up but it would be accomplishable with restrictions.

[jayR]

Good thread!!
Can you attach some pix when you do this little project?

I too always have high nitrates & want to get them in control.

[Nyles]

I will take pics next time I take it out, its a bit of a mess but it will give you an idea how to make one, very simple really. I am going to my local acrylic shop right now if they have something that will work I may grab it.

[Nyles]

ok here is a pic and video. For reference please make sure the unit is AIR TIGHT!



http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/nyleswright/December%2007%20tank%20shots/th_nitratereactor.jpg (http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/nyleswright/December%2007%20tank%20shots/?action=view&current=nitratereactor.flv)

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/nyleswright/December%2007%20tank%20shots/IMG_3142.jpg

[siskiou]

So, what exactly do you have in there (besides the media)?
A pump? And which one of the hoses is connected to it?
I'd like to try something like that, but need the the step-by-step instructions! ;)

[Nyles]

instructions where posted, here they are:

-In short from start to finish the Nitrate reactor is fed a line by gravity from the sump to the Nitrate reactor
-In the reactor is a pump that circulates the water for best effectiveness of the sulfur (pump is in the bottom and has a pipe leading to the top to circulate water, see video). I added all the sulfur I purchased now since I decided to go with a much larger reactor for effluent reasons.
-There is a line ran from the reactor to the calcium reactor (no pump)
The cal reactor PULLS the water from the nitrate reactor as my cal reactor requires no pump (it has negative pressure on the inlet) The ph going in is aprox 7.25 ph
-The cal reactor is holding 6.9 ph (arm media) as I find ARM does great at higher PH and I don't have to drag it down and effect the tank as much.
-The cal reactor is then dripped to a holder that holds the ph probe and controller set to turn of ph at 6.7 and it typically holds at 6.9

[Nyles]

none of the hoses are ran to anything in the reactor, they simply are ran through the top and go about half way down. The hose from sump to no3 reactor is gravity fed, the hose simply keep the water level what is in the sump. The hose out goes to the cal reactor, the cal reactor slowly takes water from the nitrate reactor to make the calcium. this is all controlled by the valve.

If your not running a cal reactor you could simply T-off the tube that circulates water in the no3 reactor and put a valve on it to control drip, and keep the gravity fed in. Or you could seal the unit air tight but there is nitrogen release that will eventually build up as that is the by product of the reactor. Thats why I chose to gravity in and PULL out from cal reactor. you could do it many ways.

[impur]

Good explanation in the video and good job on that reactor. Looking forward to seeing it Saturday!!

[siskiou]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Nyles!
Would my coralife ozone reactor work as a nitrate reactor in a pinch?
I could set the amount of water going through with a valve, and it has an airline for release of built up nitrogen?

[Nyles]

I dunno, I never have had a use for ozone... so your asking the wrong guy. if it will recirc water and DRIP effluent it should work. Just keep in mind Im battling this guy right now, I have since removed it from the cal reactor because its just a mess. If I drip more than 2 drips per second it stops reducing nitrates and CREATES them, so you have to be able to control the drip. If you can do that your golden. Mine runs on its own now to keep the system simple and the cal reactor can run full bore.

[defigart]

Ok, I have a couple questions.

Looking at the "Petite reactor", (in the link above) could you use a small continuous overflow into the first section, and drain the last one into say your sump.

Use a valve on the outlet, to control the rate of water exiting, (thereby the amount entering)?

Or, alternativly what am I missing?

[Nyles]

You could but to be efficient you need to deplete the oxygen levels to help reduce the PH for maximum effectiveness. That would work and I looked at that. Keep in mind the output on the two pounds of sulfur I run only has the capacity to flow out of the system at about 1 drip per second. If you wanted to increase the drip you would need to make the unit larger (more cal media and more sulfur) this would enable the system to hold a lower ph with more flow.

In a short short answer, you could do it, but the effectiveness would not be the same, HOWEVER for low levels of no3 reduction it would work effectively. Keep in mind the "petite" model uses WAY more sulfur than I used.

[defigart]

You could but to be efficient you need to deplete the oxygen levels to help reduce the PH for maximum effectiveness. That would work and I looked at that. Keep in mind the output on the two pounds of sulfur I run only has the capacity to flow out of the system at about 1 drip per second. If you wanted to increase the drip you would need to make the unit larger (more cal media and more sulfur) this would enable the system to hold a lower ph with more flow.

In a short short answer, you could do it, but the effectiveness would not be the same, HOWEVER for low levels of no3 reduction it would work effectively. Keep in mind the "petite" model uses WAY more sulfur than I used.

The size is why I put Petite in quotes. I am thinking of having something smaller made to hang on the tank. With a valve on the outflow you could control the flowrate out, and then since you have a continous syphon coming in, you control the flow in as well.

What do you think the volume of two pounds of the sulfer pellets is? And it looks like you want a similar volume of Calcium carbonate after to bring the pH back up? Or in your case a Calcium reactor.

[siskiou]

You know, that sounds really interesting!
I may try to modify my HOB fuge to try this out, once I free that up!
Does it have to be closed on top (lid)?

[defigart]

You know, that sounds really interesting!
I may try to modify my HOB fuge to try this out, once I free that up!
Does it have to be closed on top (lid)?

I think a lid on top would help keep O2 out of the system, and the system needs to be oxygen deprived to function properly.

[Nyles]

It will function, just not as effectively as it could. Keep in mind a few things:

- If your siphon gets stopped on the incoming water you will drain the reactor causing to recycle
- If your drip goes to fast (flush with regular ph) this too will crash the reactor

in both cases your reactor will have to recycle, I have had BOTH happen with the old setup and as it cycles the process is creating nitrates, so be careful and try to get it rock solid on the drip.

Secondly as for the aragonite, in the reactor you should be aiming for 1/3 sulfur and 2/3 aragonite (or seachem matrix product that does not dissolve but functions the same).

For effectiveness of course no air is best but from all the systems that I have seen fuction you would still get some function from an open top style system.

[defigart]

Nyles,

Thanks for starting this and for answering all of our questions.

Could you estimate the volume of 1 pound of sulfer?

Answer:
1 pound of Sulfer = 3.3 cups

[defigart]

One more thing. In the french versions it shows a chamber for phosphate removeral. Do you think this is important as well?

[Nyles]

I believe they recommend removing that at the end of their research, my phos removal is in a reactor thats separate.

[Nyles]

as far as how much... the amount in there is 2 pounds and thats a 1 gallon container, the larger nitrate reactors (for the big systems) are running about 5 pound media. I guess mine is 2 pounds filled up a gallon jug 1/6 th full.?? LOL Sorry... that about my best guess...?

[Nyles]

Nyles,

Thanks for starting this and for answering all of our questions.

Could you estimate the volume of 1 pound of sulfer?

Answer:
1 pound of Sulfer = 3.3 cups

I would guess 3 cups is pretty darn close....

[Nyles]

For reference... from some recent experiences... MAKE SURE THE UNIT IS SEALED, air tight. There should be NO fresh air getting in the unit. This was causing the unit to recycle itself over and over when I had a tiny hole in the top. I sealed it and the unit is working perfectly. If you do not do this your unit WILL MAKE NITRATES like no tomorrow. I am pretty confident that this is due to PH, this unit has a high flow inside it so fresh air in the unit brings the ph up causing the unit to start the cycle over. If your doing the HOB style and the flow is VERY slow this should not be an issue due to the fact the water will not have high contact to fresh air, if it is changed to a high flow unit (recirculating the water) you will have to make a top and seal the unit. Just remember just as a calcium reactor needs low ph to dissolve cal media, this needs low ph to break down nitrates and sustain the good bacteria that live in the lower ph water. Under 7.25 operating ph I have no issues, its when the ph creeps above that

[Barelycuda]

Thanks for all the info Nyles. I am looking into possibly adding(making) a nitrate reactor to the clownfish system to help control nitrates. I have a question though. Since this is a large fish only system I have no reason to supplement it with calcium. You had mentioned using the seachem matrix product instead of the arm media. Do you think this would function the same on a fish only system? I was thinking about purchasing a large phosban reactor, building a closed loop for it, & trying to make it work. Something like the midwest aquatics version. http://www.midwestaquatic.com/PRODUCTS/sulfur_denitrifier.htm My only concern is raising the ph back up going into the aquarium. I have read that simply dripping the effluent back into a chamber with an air stone will fix this problem. Maybe dripping back into the skimmer somehow or a chamber with an air stone? Are you coming to the meeting this sunday in salem? If so I would like to talk to you some more about this.

Dave

[Nyles]

I am probably not coming to the meeting, with all my family going ons its near impossible also basketball in the middle of the day, anyhow back to the question...

I think you could easily avoid using the matrix product and use the aragonite. In the past Authors have suggested its good because it puts calcium back, but I ASSURE you its very minimal, my aragonite has not dissolved at all, I am very low on calcium tests if I had more I would test the effluent for you, but I doubt its much if at all higher than the input. I want to breed clowns when my clowns decide the time is right and I plan to use one of these to help with maintinence. Just keep in mind on very important thing, it does not take much affluent at all to control the nitrates on most tanks. my drip is now less than one drip per 3 seconds and its still doing its job very effectively.

I would feel very confident in adding this system to a clown system or fish only. Only advice I can give is run the unit for at least a month and get any kinks out, this system has great positives and one big negative, that being if you mess it up and it dumps the effluent it will make nitrates till you slow it back down, so use with reliable equipment (john guest valve and make sure there is decent pressure behind it to keep a accurate drip).

If you pm me I would be happy to give you my number to go over the system if you need.

[Barelycuda]

Ok on the next question. I am building a new fish room aka the "clown house". It is a 12x14 room where my existing 11 tanks are moving to plus 16 more. So there will be a total of 27 ten gallon tanks plus a 100-125g sump. For now there will only be fish in the 11 tanks but I will probably be bringing on a couple new tanks a month through summer until they are all running. The total system volume will be approximately 370-400g. Do you have any thoughts on size of a reactor to start this thing?? The one midwest has is 7" dia x 21" tall for a 250-500g system. I am not sure what size to start with as i am sure it will change (as all diy projects do.) My thought was that any reduction is going to help. Right now I have approx 1000 clowns in the system so there is a heavy bioload with lots of water changes to help keeps nitrates down. Any reduction is going to help. I will PM you for you number but would also like to keep the info in the thread also to help anyone else that is interested. Also feel free if you have any clown questions, I am not an expert by any means but would be happy to help.

Thanks again,

Dave

[Nyles]

For something that size.... let me explain my thinking

My tank has / had a serious nitrate problem, the nitrates doing 20% water changes weekly kept it at 25ppm nitrate. The tank is 180-200 gallons total volume and I use 2 pounds of Sulfur and about 4 pounds of aragonite in a 1 gallon jug.

For simplicity I would go a little bigger for ease of use, so something like that I would probably use around 5 pounds sulfur and 10 aragonite in a vessel of your choice. Mid west aquatic has nice stuff and I like the owner (he has helped me perfect my system), if thats an option its a good one, I just prefer to save and build my own.

With a larger system you have the ability to control more nitrates but I don't think you will need more than 5 pounds to keep the nitrate at 0, I know breeding clowns are one of the dirtiest jobs, I think this would keep water changes to a minimal, matter of fact thats my plan when these darn clown get busy doing what they need to do.

Again, word of caution, the drip rate needs to be controlled very closely and accurately this is the biggest key to the system. I have a dosing pump thats up for grabs if thats something you want to try, I got it from a friend but for my tank in the living room the noise it puts off is unacceptable, in a breeding room I don't think you will hear it at all. Just a thought.

[Barelycuda]

That seems logical. Now to find a vessel that will hold that amount of media. Without having built one of these yet do you have any ideas on what size, type, material would be necessary? What would you use the dosing pump for? Would you use it to control the flow into the chamber? I might be interested in it. Sorry for all the questions, but it seems that the closer i come to understanding this the more questions i have :) I really do appreciate you thoughts & time.

Dave

[Nyles]

That seems logical. Now to find a vessel that will hold that amount of media. Without having built one of these yet do you have any ideas on what size, type, material would be necessary?

Something like this I would make from a rectangular acrylic enclosure that would be accessible from the top to clean and top off its total volume would be close to 2.5 gallons and be seal able.

What would you use the dosing pump for?

The dosing pump would be to control the drip rate accurately, if the system gravity fed out then it would supply, or like mine it gravity feeds in by a siphon hose and I have a pump in the unit that circulates water and is "T'ed" off to control the drip rate out under pressure with a john guest valve.


Would you use it to control the flow into the chamber?

I use mine siphon in and pump out. But you could do it either way depending on if the unit was above or below the sump.

I might be interested in it. Sorry for all the questions, but it seems that the closer i come to understanding this the more questions i have :) I really do appreciate you thoughts & time.

Dave

[Barelycuda]

Would you try to make the enclosure or did you have something in mind that could be modified?

[Nyles]

It depends on what you can find in that size, personally I am looking to rebuild mine as a true reactor, our local acrylics place has raw tubes for $6-8, putting a bottom and removable top on are easy. The hard part is finding all the fittings to make the reactor for the recirc pump and the two small fittings for the dosing pump. However you do it you should make sure the Effluent exit fitting is on top, as the sulfur will very slowly break down nitrates and make nitrogen gas, the gas could be purged manually but its better to have the valve at the top to it will purge automatically.

[Nyles]

Well since I have not needed my calcium reactor and it has not sold I am going to convert it over to the same nitrate reactor as above, hopefully with the same great results as my previous model, it will also make SOME Alk as well but only about 1/5 what a regular reactor would do but every bit helps. I will post results when I get a new nitrate test kit. Firing it up the converted no3 reactor in a few hours.

[Nyles]

well that was easy, all setup, will check it in two days and see if I have 0 ppm nitrate, currently I am around 20 ppm with weekly water changes. fun fun.

[Barelycuda]

pictures, pictures :)

[Nyles]

All I did was turn off the co2 in the cal reactor and remove all the cal media, put in 2/3 sulfur and then top back off with cal media (arm) and set to a 1 drip per second. This setup requires no ph probe nor co2 as long as the drip is slow the ph will naturally lower. You could use co2 to lower but its not necessary as the low drip rate will easily reduce the nitrate to nothing as the first test last year or so ago showed, also I should have much less risk of having to much effluent causing a huge nitrate production instead of reduction. Also note my system is less than half the size of the old one. However I am still bare bottom and I think it has a little to do with my reoccurring nitrate problem and my remote DSB is not very big.

[impur]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2003/2189568405_c1003315b0.jpg

[wanareef]

Nyles

Using John Guest fittings would solve the problem of hooking up the reactor. Problem is the holes have to be tapped.

For example my calcium reactor:

[Nyles]

Not sure Im following what your talking about? The unit already has JG fittings?

[Nyles]

Checked nitrates today, 0ppm out of effluent, now I just have to wait, I will check nitrates in water in a few weeks, but for now reactor is working like it should. 1 drip per second out.

[CA2OR]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2003/2189568405_c1003315b0.jpg

Wow...Miles..(nutty)..you guys are actually crazy....I was just messing around before but now I believe.;)

[impur]

Thats me on the far right ;)

[Michael7979]

Looking good Miles!!!!!

(laugh) (laugh) (laugh) (laugh)

[impur]

Thanks! I work out ;)

[Michael7979]

Thanks! I work out ;)

It shows!!!!!