Need help with Keeping my pH up.

[H20cooled]

Well I'm completely frustrated with my pH fluctuations, my pH peaks during the day at 8.07 and at night goes down to as low as 7.67. To counter act this I've done the following with no success.


Nilsen reactor for top off (kalk reactor)
Added a 2nd chamber on my CA reactor
A large fan running on my sump 24/7 to increase evaporation
Leaving the window next to the tank open to aid in Co2 dispersal

So far this hasn't seemed to affect my SPS but I really would like to cut this down to a smaller fluctuation.

Does anyone have any recommendations for maintaining the pH?

Thanx,

Rich

[nu2reef-n]

Are you running your 'fuge on a reverse light cycle from your display tank? That should help.

[drock59]

Hey man,
been there done that. I tried all the same thing you tried and nothign worked for me. I take it you are using a calc reactor? The only way that I raised my pH was to set up an air stone directly under where the effluent drips into the sump. This raises the pH of the effluent, hence raising the pH of the tank.


If you dont have a calc reactor then I would try to run your skimmer air intake outside somehow. I ran mine behind a wall to a crawl space that is heavily vented to the outside.

All of these steps did not necessarily help the swing but they stopped the swing from going low. Now my pH goes from 8.05 to 8.2 instead of what you have. HTH

Dan

[H20cooled]

No fuge on my tank now, I had one before and it was more trouble then it was worth...


Are you running your 'fuge on a reverse light cycle from your display tank? That should help.

[H20cooled]

Yep I have a Calc reactor, I built a container with an airstone in it to do just this, also did not help at all.

My skimmer is right next to the window, I haven't tried plumbing the air tube directly outside but I could very easily do that.

Rich



Hey man,
been there done that. I tried all the same thing you tried and nothign worked for me. I take it you are using a calc reactor? The only way that I raised my pH was to set up an air stone directly under where the effluent drips into the sump. This raises the pH of the effluent, hence raising the pH of the tank.


If you dont have a calc reactor then I would try to run your skimmer air intake outside somehow. I ran mine behind a wall to a crawl space that is heavily vented to the outside.

All of these steps did not necessarily help the swing but they stopped the swing from going low. Now my pH goes from 8.05 to 8.2 instead of what you have. HTH

Dan

[inkto]

have you considered running your calc. reactor effluent through the skimmer ... or increasing surface agitation in the tank to aid gas exchange?

[drock59]

How about your ALK what is it currently at? I would suspect as you suspect that your pH is low becuase of excess CO2. I had exactly the same problem and opened every window I could with no results.

Have you tried taking a little bit of water and airating it outside and testing the pH? If the pH goes up you have a CO2 problem, if it doesnt then its some other factor.

Perhaps your effluent is running too rich on the CO2 side, hence adding too much CO2 to the water. Just trying to throw out ideas.

[H20cooled]

drock59,
I haven't tried airating the water outside but I will try that. Haven't tested the ALK in a while but I can do that also.

inkto,
I could very easily change my effulent output to my skimmer, which I might do.

Thanx,

Rich

[rude944]

Yeah, Drock is thinking what I am thinking. Check the co2. Do you have a PH controller on the reactor? Does your calcium reactor have a second chamber? Have you changed the substrate recently, if not... it's a good buffer and removes old organics. Also think about the other side of the equation; What about your bioload, ever considered running ozone?

[H20cooled]

I have a Neptune AC3 that controls and monitors the co2. Yep there is a 2nd chamber on the Calc reactor. I haven't changed any substrate for a while.

Bioload is fine for the tank, don't want ozone as it removes to much from the water that I want to keep. Plus it is not good with Zeovit & Prodobio products.

I will test the water tonight after airating it outside to see what the pH is.

[drock59]

could the controller be off then? How about the pH probe, have you calibrated lately? What fluid did you use?

If you have a controller that controls CO2 then that shouldnt be your problem.

[H20cooled]

Its been several months since I calibrated the probes, so I will do that this weekend. I calibrate with 10. & 7. and new fluid everytime. But even if they are off it still doesn't explain that big of a flucuation.

Yeah the controller is setup to stop the Co2 if the tank pH gets to low and also to maintain the reactor pH at the correct level through the control of the co2 input.

[Lowman]

Rich, does the water from the calcium reactor return drain under the water level in your sump? If so raise it above the water line and that may help too.

[H20cooled]

Bob,
So are you saying if the output on the reactor is lower then my sump raise the reactor? Or are you saying if the end of the tube for my output is lower the the sump raise it? Also why would this cause higher pH?

Rich


Rich, does the water from the calcium reactor return drain under the water level in your sump? If so raise it above the water line and that may help too.

[Lowman]

raise the hose so it is above the water line. I don't know why it affects ph but it worked for me.

[H20cooled]

Yeah the end of the hose it right at the water level, I have it so it flow into the skimmer output which has tons of bubbles...

[Lowman]

Raising the tube to drip in the sump helps any excess C02 evaporate.

[impur]

Raising the tube to drip in the sump helps any excess C02 evaporate.

Yep, you need as much air contact with that effluent as possible to drive off the excess CO2. Plumbing right into the skimmer works well.

[H20cooled]

A Bunch of good ideas. I will work on it this weekend.

Thank you,

Rich

[Lowman]

Miles, I never thought of running it into the skimmer, I'm going to try that too.

[impur]

Miles, I never thought of running it into the skimmer, I'm going to try that too.

:) lots of air bubbles in the skimmer!! :cool:

[H20cooled]

Well I drilled and tapped my skimmer for the effulant input. We'll see how this affects the pH tonight.

Thanx everyone for the ideas...

Rich

[H20cooled]

Well the effulant into the skimmer made no difference. So, I tested my CA & Alk this am. Well the CA is at 410 (which is fine) but my KH is at 5.4dkh (which is way to low). I also took a cup of tank water outside and airated it for an hour, the starting pH was 7.60 and after an hour it was at 7.70. So, I think my problem is not with excess Co2 in the air but with the low ALK. So, I'm working on raising the ALK with Randy's Recipe (Baking soda).

Rich

[inkto]

I think in the end the combination of changes will be necessary to get your levels stable. The addition of kalkwasser probably took care of any excess CO2 issues already. That in addition with correcting your ALK levels will hopefully take care of it. The only other thing I can think of is to put your Nielsen reactor on a nighttime cycle to help curb the ph swing. Your ph may still be a bit lower than you want it but stability is better in the long run.

Also... I don't know how long you've had the Nielsen reactor running but it may take several weeks to see your levels change and stabilize. I was having a hell of time keeping my alk up even dripping kalk 24/7 until I added vinegar to the solution. After that change ALK slowly came up over the course of 6-8 weeks and is stable.

good luck with the detective work,
ben

[H20cooled]

Ben,
yeah I think you are right about everything stabilizing after I get the Alk back in line.

I was dripping kalk water before the addition of the Nielsen reactor, I added the Nielsen to try to improve my pH and also the way that I topped off my system. I'm quite suprise my Alk got that low though, between the Kalk and CA reator there should be plenty...

Rich

[Lowman]

Rich, just out of curiosity, what brand of salt mix are you using?

[H20cooled]

OceanPure...

[Chief]

It's definately not the salt. I use OceanPure and my PH is pretty steady at around 8.29. I think when Rich gets his Alk back to normal, he will see some steadier numbers.

Jay

[funstarfish]

yeah, Alk has a huge affect on Ph stability and should run at at least 7, but closer to 9. once you get your Alk back up, your kalk and CA reactors should keep it stable. It's hard to elevate levels with reactors, but it's simple to maintain them. Best of luck, good info all, this group is becoming more educated every day.

[H20cooled]

Yeah I've never had a problem in the past maintain the alk or CA the reactors help with that. Thats why I was so suprised that the alk was low. I guess I'll have to monitor it better...

[H20cooled]

Well the pH has stabilized out a lot better now, it now goes from 7.8 to 7.9 which is not as high as I would like but it .10 is a small change so I can live with that. I had a hard time getting my alk to the right level, it spiked up higher then I wanted but has now settled at around 12. I've also been fighting with the CA, I have never had a hard time keeping it at 400, since the alk spike it wants to stay at about 300. I dosed it up last night so hopefully I can get it to stay now.

Rich

[impur]

Good deal, that fluctuation is nothing to worry about. I wouldn't worry about being in that range either. Once you get the alk/calcium balanced i'd bet it comes up a point or so as well.

[H20cooled]

Yeah the small fluctuation is fine, I just didn't like the big ones. Yeah I'd like to see it get up to the 8.0 range...